Archived from the Tools In Action forum (Makita). This thread is read-only.
Does Makita work on new batteries with the bigger 20700 cells found in Metabo LiHD and Bosh CORE/ENERASER batteries?
Will we see any time soon something like form Makita?
It seems the latest Makita 6Ah still employ the 18650 cells.
Makita 6 amp are still the normal 18650 cells.
We know Makita are working on new batteries because all their modern 18+ 18v tools have the batteries spaced apart to make room for future bigger batteries.
The rumour is Makita ( and Milwaukee ) will be skipping 20700 cells and go for 21700 cells but when, and how…. Noone will be able to confirm you that for now
Thanks kornomaniac!
But if even bigger sells (21700) are in the way than the new batteries will become mach bigger and won’t fit existing tool range I suspect. Something like Dewalts FlexiVolt.
The 21700 cells are only 1 mm larger in diameter then 20700 cells. I’m sure that won’t matter/ that extra room for that 1 mm has been taken into account by DeWalt engineers 🙂
I expect only a small increase in amps with 21700 cells so I guess it will be a rolling change for flexvolt throughout the time
Thanks!
I am not in favour of Flexi Volt (maxi size) like batteries.
For me the current size (dimentions wise) Makita batteries are just right for every day, all day use.
kornomaniac wrote:
1 hour ago, kornomaniac said:Makita 6 amp are still the normal 18650 cells.
We know Makita are working on new batteries because all their modern 18+ 18v tools have the batteries spaced apart to make room for future bigger batteries.
The rumour is Makita ( and Milwaukee ) will be skipping 20700 cells and go for 21700 cells but when, and how…. Noone will be able to confirm you that for now
I heard the same about Makita but Milwaukee supposedly confirmed they will use the 21700 cells
Ned wrote:
7 hours ago, Ned said:Thanks!
I am not in favour of Flexi Volt (maxi size) like batteries.
For me the current size (dimentions wise) Makita batteries are just right for every day, all day use.
Well there is no escaping bigger batteries. We’re at the end of what 10cell 18650 cells can do for us.
If we want more powah and longer runtime in the future that will mean some bigger batteries 🙂
Now a 10cell 21700 battery doesn’t have to be much bigger . Does anyone know if Bosch uses 20700 or 21700 in the new procore ?
Bosh CORE (USA) / ENERASER (EU) uses 20700 cells. I have not heard of ProCORE.
Core/eneracer is their 6.2 amp battery.
Bosch introduced a new 7 amp battery named procore about a month ago. Not sure what cells are in there.
do not know
kornomaniac wrote:
15 hours ago, kornomaniac said:Well there is no escaping bigger batteries. We’re at the end of what 10cell 18650 cells can do for us.
If we want more powah and longer runtime in the future that will mean some bigger batteries 🙂
Now a 10cell 21700 battery doesn’t have to be much bigger . Does anyone know if Bosch uses 20700 or 21700 in the new procore ?
Bosch will use 21700 in procore.
With current tech the only option is bigger batteries but solid state batteries are in the near future. Supposedly smaller than Li ion with a bunch of other benefits. I wouldn’t be surprised if they come within 10 years.
It is a persistent rumor, that the Bosch ProCore features 21700 cells but they are Sanyo NCR20700C cells, the same as in the new Metabo LiHD batteries. There are no 3,5Ah 21700 cells from a major cell manufacturer yet.
Your not using a Makita battery ..All day Everyday…,they don’t last
Framer joe wrote:
6 hours ago, Framer joe said:Your not using a Makita battery ..All day Everyday…,they don’t last
WTF!!!!
Framer joe wrote:
6 hours ago, Framer joe said:Your not using a Makita battery ..All day Everyday…,they don’t
@Ned…my second framing crew has all Makita tools and batteries the batteries charge very fast and die very fast
Framer joe wrote:
Your not using a Makita battery ..All day Everyday…,they don’t last
I use Makita all day, everyday.
I have used/owned all Milwaukee Fuel, Hilti and Makita.
There is no significant difference in batteries between them.
Even the Brushed Hilti stuff.
I use 5.0 and slim 2.0 all day everyday on my Makita stuff.
I don’t have issues with runtime at all. If fact, the Makita Brushed Rotary Hammer seems to last as long as my old 2712-20 Fuel ever did. I also don’t abuse tools or “push” them like some guys like to.
I actually bought too many batteries thinking I should have them “just in case”, now I have batteries that literally sit around collecting dust.
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@HiltiWpg…sir I am happy that your batteries do work just fine for you. As you said you don’t run them hard or push them…I assume you get 2/3 used and you slap a new one on. ?…. In my world of construction aka Framing..we Push everything and Everyone to the N’th degree….I’m sure your not working in blizzards,pouring rain,ungodly heat….well,welcome to my world…Yes,I make crazy stupid money,but our tools must and do perform without problem just as my worksite does..
……as I said I run 2 very large framing crews side by side on the same job everyday. One uses all Dewalt. One uses all Makita…from my use and supervisory role,I see the Makita tools breaking down more and the battery getting changed more often then Dewalt……….I am Not disrespecting Makita, they are a fine company,it’s merely an observation on a daily basis of long hours and hard work under tough conditions..
You missing the point mate!
We are here (in Makita forum) to share and discuss our beloved MAKITA brand good and not so good experience. This particular forum is not about arguing about Brands. Go somewhere else to argue about.
Nobody make a claim Makita is the Best. If it does not work for you than get something else and move to other forums to discuss.
When I say I don’t push them, I literally mean I don’t lean hard into them and force them to overdraw or put too much pressure on the bearings. I see morons lean into the tools so hard it’s a wonder they don’t implode.Framer joe wrote:
[mention=51679]HiltiWpg[/mention]…sir I am happy that your batteries do work just fine for you. As you said you don’t run them hard or push them…I assume you get 2/3 used and you slap a new one on. ?…. In my world of construction aka Framing..we Push everything and Everyone to the N’th degree….I’m sure your not working in blizzards,pouring rain,ungodly heat….well,welcome to my world…Yes,I make crazy stupid money,but our tools must and do perform without problem just as my worksite does.. ……as I said I run 2 very large framing crews side by side on the same job everyday. One uses all Dewalt. One uses all Makita…from my use and supervisory role,I see the Makita tools breaking down more and the battery getting changed more often then Dewalt……….I am Not disrespecting Makita, they are a fine company,it’s merely an observation on a daily basis of long hours and hard work under tough conditions..
I drill and fasten concrete, drill metal etc all day.
And if you look up one of the coldest cities on earth, yeah, that’s where I live!
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New batteries are coming, it’s just a case of when. I’d expect to see them on the JPN and AUS markets before anywhere else however. Rumours of 21700 cells being implemented.
Framer joe wrote:
21 hours ago, Framer joe said:Your not using a Makita battery ..All day Everyday…,they don’t last
If makita don’t last then none of them last; every brand use one of three cells, samsung, sony or LG.
SchenzhenSpecial wrote:
8 minutes ago, SchenzhenSpecial said:New batteries are coming, it’s just a case of when. I’d expect to see them on the JPN and AUS markets before anywhere else however. Rumours of 21700 cells being implemented.
If makita don’t last then none of them last; every brand use one of three cells, samsung, sony or LG.
Quite right said 🙂
Today at Screwfix Live tools fair (UK) I have asked Makita reps about when shall we expect a new batteries to become available and they said not this Year.
They Makita did not have any 6Ah at the show neither could you order from them as they direct you to retailers having some stock. 6ah batteries have been released in a limited numbers this summer in UK but no any more supply from Makita since August and nobody knows why.
Which may me thinking that they (Makita) had stopped this batch as they are with 18650 sells, while Metabo and Bosch (here in EU) have already moved to 20700 and very recently to 21700, and now try to sell as mach as they could before new batteries come to the shelfs. I hope we will see the new batteries before the end of the Year. Either 20700 or 21700 will be quite upgrade over present well served for me for many Years 18650s.
Ned wrote:
1 minute ago, Ned said:Quite right said 🙂
Today at Screwfix Live tools fair (UK) I have asked Makita reps about when shall we expect a new batteries to become available and they said not this Year.
They Makita did not have any 6Ah at the show neither could you order from them as they direct you to retailers having some stock. 6ah batteries have been released in a limited numbers this summer in UK but no any more supply from Makita since August and nobody knows why.
Which may me thinking that they (Makita) had stopped this batch as they are with 18650 sells, while Metabo and Bosch (here in EU) have already moved to 20700 and very recently to 21700, and now try to sell as mach as they could before new batteries come to the shelfs. I hope we will see the new batteries before the end of the Year. Either 20700 or 21700 will be quite upgrade over present well served for me for many Years 18650s.
No, they’ll still be available, makita just couldn’t produce them fast enough for the UK market. http://www.makitauk.com/accessories/batteries/li-ion/197422-4-battery-bl1860b-18v-li-ion.html
SchenzhenSpecial wrote:
18 minutes ago, SchenzhenSpecial said:
No, they’ll still be available, makita just couldn’t produce them fast enough for the UK market. http://www.makitauk.com/accessories/batteries/li-ion/197422-4-battery-bl1860b-18v-li-ion.html
Very limited stock and Makita does not provide any info about restock them since August. I have had chad with several Makita distributors including FastFix one of the biggest official Makita retailer. This isn`t looking like they can`t produce quantities but more likely clearing old stock before new releases. But that is just my guess.
Ned wrote:
Just now, Ned said:Very limited stock and Makita does not provide any info about restock them since August. I have had chad with several Makita distributors including FastFix one of the biggest official Makita retailer. This isn`t looking like they can`t produce quantities but more likely clearing old stock before new releases. But that is just my guess.
They were released in the UK Q4 last year. They’re not currently old stock. Even with new batteries coming, the current batteries will have to be continued to support 18×2 tools that haven’t been designed to accept batteries with a wider body.
Gentlemen, because a company uses the same cell that another company uses has Absolutely Nothing to do with finished battery. I’m quite sure you know while 1 battery can run extremely hot (brand A) while a different battery can run much cooler with the exact same cells (brand Dewalt) not only battery WH but the motor of the tool and voltage none of which i know much about. ……..and…mr @HiltiWpg..I’m quite sure if your drilling cement and metal your using the BEST company for that , HILTI..not Makita ………some of Makita 18v batteries don’t work in some other 18v tools, as in not compatible.and many don’t even have charge status lights.. If Makita works for you awesome, I’m only stating what I actually see. I have a Makita compressor (MAC5200) from 25 years ago that still works awesome and a rotary hammer (HR3851) that I still use to break frozen ground so I can install Sono tubes for deck footings……so I love those those Makita tools, not bashing…I think the batteries are a different subject…
@Framer joe
Noone is interested in you derailing every thread to a DeWalt brand discussion.
That is of completely no use to the original poster and only clutters up the answers to his question
Framer joe wrote:
5 hours ago, Framer joe said:Gentlemen, because a company uses the same cell that another company uses has Absolutely Nothing to do with finished battery. I’m quite sure you know while 1 battery can run extremely hot (brand A) while a different battery can run much cooler with the exact same cells (brand Dewalt) not only battery WH but the motor of the tool and voltage none of which i know much about. ……..and…mr @HiltiWpg..I’m quite sure if your drilling cement and metal your using the BEST company for that , HILTI..not Makita ………some of Makita 18v batteries don’t work in some other 18v tools, as in not compatible.and many don’t even have charge status lights.. If Makita works for you awesome, I’m only stating what I actually see. I have a Makita compressor (MAC5200) from 25 years ago that still works awesome and a rotary hammer (HR3851) that I still use to break frozen ground so I can install Sono tubes for deck footings……so I love those those Makita tools, not bashing…I think the batteries are a different subject…
Dewalt don’t even use air cooled chargers.
The colour of the tool won’t alter the science of the cell so believe me when I say a DeWalt battery at its core will be no cooler than any other under the same load.
First the dcb118 is fan cooled and yellow and you should tell Milwaukee that their battery runs as hot as a Makita because your science is as correct as “global warming.”count on it…….then tell Dewalts engineers they are wrong because a cell is a cell and then “AVE” boltre all that heat disappated foil and extra copper used is all BS……cmon sir , you know not all batteries are created equal right ?
Framer joe wrote:
1 hour ago, Framer joe said:First the dcb118 is fan cooled and yellow and you should tell Milwaukee that their battery runs as hot as a Makita because your science is as correct as “global warming.”count on it…….then tell Dewalts engineers they are wrong because a cell is a cell and then “AVE” boltre all that heat disappated foil and extra copper used is all BS……cmon sir , you know not all batteries are created equal right ?
It’s only taken what, 6/7 years for them to think now’s perhaps the time for a can cooled charger when batteries approach the 6ah mark.
As for this running hot nonsense, I’ll bare it in mind. Plastic is an insulator. You can fill it with as much copper foil as you like. I’ve attached a few images for you to study at your convenience. Ironically out of the three the DeWalt has the smallest (if at all) over load, over discharge and thermal protection circuit.
As you know the battery you choose is Dewalts oldest, 3ah and a Makita newer 3ah with battery level indicator…and Milwaukee 2nd gen battery…..I realize you hate Dewalt it’s tough on you Makita guys that Dewalt leads the pack in construction related cordless tools and batteries..I get it…it’s why Milwaukee took out full ads the day Flexvolt was released. It’s why Makita rear handle came out first ,to try and beat the flex circ,but it can’t I am sorry for you…and yes the new flex direct drive saw is even better by 33% more then then flex circ……
Game changing is what Dewalt does …it’s not a gimmick it’s real world tool performance better then anyone else…….I’m not a engineer or electrical in any way…but both Dewalt and Milwaukee have claims and data proving their batteries run cooler then anyone else..(check it it online) I go buy that claim….if you know more then their designers ,you should call them out on it . …in my real world I can use a Makita battery for a while and hold it Feel the temp…then a Dewalt battery ….it’s not rocket science…one feels hotter after the same use…….
….as I said , I have Makita tools that have lasted decades and still work great. I’m not a guy in a garage doing a 6min test with scrape wood…I build multi million dollar homes everyday , I run dozens of guys , the tools get worked hard everyday…these are my observations everyday…….no disrespect to you at all,I enjoy learning everyday.
Framer joe wrote:
17 minutes ago, Framer joe said:.I realize you hate Dewalt it’s tough on you Makita guys that Dewalt leads the pack in construction related cordless tools and batteries
Incorrect. I have plenty cordless DeWalt tools, I just choose not to be blinded by the marketing fan boy bull flame wars that go on in forums. If you want to move the goal posts that’s fine but I’d rather compare apples to apples. Wait for Makita new batteries if you’re going to put the flexvolt battery on a pedestal.
Framer joe wrote:
19 minutes ago, Framer joe said:both Dewalt and Milwaukee have claims and data proving their batteries run cooler then anyone else..(check it it online) I go buy that claim
This is where you fail. Milwaukee are well known as being thermally flawed on their 9ah packs.
Framer joe wrote:
20 minutes ago, Framer joe said:in my real world I can use a Makita battery for a while and hold it Feel the temp…then a Dewalt battery ….it’s not rocket science…one feels hotter after the same use.
This isn’t through heat dissipation, this is through heat build up (or lack of) due to high current draw. Perhaps the problem is not with the fact Makita allow a high current draw and inturn get hot but rather that DeWalt do not. The form factor and surface area is pretty much identical for both brands. Without extra surface area and a material that acts as a good conducter of heat, not one or the other will be any better.
Framer joe wrote:
23 minutes ago, Framer joe said:the tools get worked hard everyday…these are my observations everyday…….no disrespect to you at all,I enjoy learning everyday.
Have you ever considered that it isn’t the brand, rather you and the guys using them?
Anyway that’s me. If you want to educate yourself further on energy storage there’s a wealth of information online.
I love a good debate….definitely love the fanboy twist guys use…you do realize I work to create wealth and to support multiple families…I don’t use and buy tools to be blindly loyal to dewalt ( I have multiple brands) .I use the tools the get the job done faster ,more efficiently and the tool that will last. …
…………..always makes me chuckle though……like the Makita xsh01 two battery 7.25 circ saw…the guys at work bought it and brought it in thinking it could beat the flex circ…funny….watch reviews on the Makita impact wrench…it’s big it’s heavy and can’t even beat the older 899…. Milwaukee is not even in the same league with circ saws…..facts not fans always win,,,that’s Dewalt ! Wait till the direct drive is released..! Oh boy ! Bosch core batteries make the same claim, less heat…run cooler.( love Bosch) ..but what your saying is it’s all bs every battery heats up the same….I am sorry ,I respectfully disagree..
I don’t believe that……I could be wrong, I was once back in the 80’s …jk
…….Zippidy Zip Bam Boo……ok buying Dewalt socks was over the line,BUT they are great socks,really……
See that’s what I mean. Whole thread gone to fuck from the moment framer Joe steps in.
@SchenzhenSpecial
Don’t feed the troll man ! He’s not open to any argument / discussion because his work crews know it all ! Better to ignore him
@Framer joe
You’ve turned the thread into a dewalt fan boy thread. No one cares that you run 2 crews, 1 uses dewalt and the other makita. No one cares you do multi million jobs. No one cares you create wealth and support multiple families. What relevance does that have to the original post ?
People are sick of hearing about. What do you want a pat on the back or something ?
People contribute to this world daily like you do, but don’t need to brag about it
Makita_2233 wrote:
1 minute ago, Makita_2233 said:@Framer joe
You’ve turned the thread into a dewalt fan boy thread. No one cares that you run 2 crews, 1 uses dewalt and the other makita. No one cares you do multi million jobs. No one cares you create wealth and support multiple families. What relevance does that have to the original post ?
People are sick of hearing about. What do you want a pat on the back or something ?
People contribute to this world daily like you do, but don’t need to brag about it
Is it about the size of his flexvolt battery pack or his ego?
Either way, I bet that’s not all he likes to stroke. :rolleyes:
SchenzhenSpecial wrote:
22 minutes ago, SchenzhenSpecial said:
Is it about the size of his flexvolt battery pack or his ego?
Either way, I bet that’s not all he likes to stroke. :rolleyes:
Both I think lol
Hahaha
What will happen when Milwaukee bring their 21700 celled dual voltage packs next year, will they be better ? Who cares, every brand has good and bad
Guys! This is a Makita topic, keep it to Makita. Everyone knows Festool is better than Makita AND Dewalt. You don’t hear me whining about it 😜
Seriously though, I got a concerned email and checked the thread out. Let’s keep it on task, somebody queried Makita, lets talk Makita. If you want to discuss merits of other batteries pros and cons, start a new topic.
Besides, when Dewalt gets Dewalt girls like Makita does, then we will be more interested.
** disclaimer, I have both Makita and Dewalt as my primaries in my shop **
👍🤔
Ford Chevy ford Chevy ford Chevy. Why choose between Makita and dewalt invest in both. Festool now that except for a couple of tools is for rich retired guys to make hobby furniture in there little shops.
Go Chris go !
Alas, I shall no longer bestow my Makita wisdom on the Makita vine . The ignorant turn to disrespect out of a lack of knowledge and the inability to see the “big picture” …… The USA was created by great men ,Rockefeller,Carnegie, Vanderbilt, men who spoke their mind, took chances and applauded there own successes,in the face of criticism,such as myself. While I realize your ashamed of your shortcomings,disappointments and lack of success in the world, I celebrate my success.I proudly tell all and encourage all to not settle for anything less ….
Having great success means helping build high school shop buildings, donating tools, and time helping family friends….Donating large amounts of money to cure cancer, leukemia.build churches…I have taught dozens framing skills and tool knowledge and they learned at work and after work ,through the years and have gone on to start their own business and hire people,thus perpetuating the American dream.
What does this have to do with tools ? Ah,… learning,studying,being a master of my craft, using a vast array of tools and different companies , gains invaluable knowledge. Which tools get the job done faster, which tools break down. Which companies stand behind their tools. Which translates into success, money…
…You should be greatful to vets and the USA if not for us you would be speaking German and standing in line begging for a loaf a bread….
Stick to diy and I’ll,continue to build the country,yup yup More POWA god bless
Framer joe. That was a really weird post. ?
A friend told me that toolaholic let slip on his story that a 9ah battery is coming. Definitely wider. Possibly 21 or 20700 cells.
I’m curious to see if they have fitment issues on the 2×18 tools. I haven’t used one. I would imagine they anticipated bigger batteries and left some space? If Makita starts using 21700 cells they’ll be able to give horsepower (I guess kW) specs for their impact drivers. Curious to see the change in performance in the td170dz. Still the best impact driver I’ve ever owned. I’d trade my dcf887 for it any day.
Stercorarius wrote:
37 minutes ago, Stercorarius said:I’m curious to see if they have fitment issues on the 2×18 tools. I haven’t used one. I would imagine they anticipated bigger batteries and left some space? If Makita starts using 21700 cells they’ll be able to give horsepower (I guess kW) specs for their impact drivers. Curious to see the change in performance in the td170dz. Still the best impact driver I’ve ever owned. I’d trade my dcf887 for it any day.
Maybe they’ll be taller like the Milwaukee ones? I have the X2 chainsaw and it’s suck if including use a larger pack.
Framer joe wrote:
[mention=51679]HiltiWpg[/mention]..I’m quite sure if your drilling cement and metal your using the BEST company for that , HILTI..not Makita ………some of Makita 18v batteries don’t work in some other 18v tools, as in not compatible.and many don’t even have charge status lights.. If Makita works for you awesome, I’m only stating what I actually see. I
What? Do you even read before replying?
I am talking specifically about Makita, not Hilti. No one mentioned Hilti but you.
I get you dislike Makita, but based on your comments, you haven’t used any recent Makita stuff, otherwise you would understand some of the significant changes that were made and how the product works now, compared to 2009 when you seem to have last experienced Makita.
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Oh no! A Makita vs. DeWalt Flameware. Thats a bit problematic for me :S
SchenzhenSpecial wrote:
3 hours ago, SchenzhenSpecial said:A friend told me that toolaholic let slip on his story that a 9ah battery is coming. Definitely wider. Possibly 21 or 20700 cells.
Any chance there are pictures forthcoming? Maybe a timeframe on the release date?
ChrisK wrote:
1 hour ago, ChrisK said:Any chance there are pictures forthcoming? Maybe a timeframe on the release date?
If I find anything I’ll be sure to post it but Makita are very secretive about new things/power source it seems. Personally I’d anticipate something earlier in the coming year.
ChrisK wrote:
3 hours ago, ChrisK said:Maybe they’ll be taller like the Milwaukee ones? I have the X2 chainsaw and it’s suck if including use a larger pack.
The only way they could just go taller is if maybe they turned the cells so they are set in vertical. 20700 and 21700 cells would be 5mm longer so you would need 5mm spacing between the batteries and 2.5mm on the outsides of the two batteries unless they can cut out a good chunk of the battery shell. I guess we shall see when they release them. Curious as to how much space the 18×2 recip and circular saws have. I think a few guys have them on here.