6ah and 9ah battery coming!!!

Dewalt…last to the party…again. But hey, it has bluetooth.  🙄

Wonder what the pricing will be. Maybe the fabled M18 Fuel Miter will be bundled with the 9er…

Pretty sweet to see almost double the size of high ah packs being introduced, what’s the weight on the 9.0s?

Jimbo

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The 9ah is a good idea. Wish more companies would come out with a XL battery

NERemodeling wrote:

The 9ah is a good idea. Wish more companies would come out with a XL battery

I don’t see much point in lugging around super sized batteries.  Even for tools that need a higher current draw I’d rather stick two regular packs on than have a 9.0 sitting around just for that tool.

It’s like Milwaukee is trying to work up to a 36V line that’s still labeled under M18.

Edit: I guess I can understand it in cases where you have enough batteries to have some dedicated for high power tools, but in my situation it’s not a good solution.  Actually one of my favorites things about Makita is the 18×2 platform so I can really run everything on one battery platform.

When will it end!

I would rather have 2 4.0 or 5.0 batteries over a 9.0 besides how far away from power would you have to be to have 9.0 versus 4.0 and how much will that actually be gained cost wise?

jeffmcmillan wrote:

I don’t see much point in lugging around super sized batteries.  Even for tools that need a higher current draw I’d rather stick two regular packs on than have a 9.0 sitting around just for that tool.

 

It’s like Milwaukee is trying to work up to a 36V line that’s still labeled under M18.

 

Edit: I guess I can understand it in cases where you have enough batteries to have some dedicated for high power tools, but in my situation it’s not a good solution.  Actually one of my favorites things about Makita is the 18×2 platform so I can really run everything on one battery platform.

Agreed, it’s a very good solution and I can’t think of a good reason why others haven’t copied this idea.

Personally im hoping Makita will combine the 18×2 platform with 9amp batteries for new cordless tools like: 10/12 inch miters. 9″ grinders, sds max hammers, table saws, chainsaws.

36v brushless motors will give the power. 2x 9.0 amps will give a long runtime that is needed in my opinion for these tools to functions as replacements of corded tools ( in most cases )

Other than mostly stationary tools like a cordless miter saw, I’d rather have one 9ah than two 5ah. It would have you a lot on weight. Yes the 9ah are heavier but not a heady as two 5ah. I’d use a 9ah in my fuel 7 1/4 or fuel sawzall on demo day.

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what’s not to like about a 9Ah (or a few 9Ah) batteries for your mag drill, mitre saw, SDS Max and other high draw tools…?

i would put a 9.0 in a fuel skilsaw, or the sawzall, I don’t have either tool yet but if I was going to get them I would buy a 9.0 for them. I have 2 2.0 and 1 5.0 for my fuel impact and drill I use the 5.0 in my drill for when I need a bucket of 20 minute drywall mud or a bucket of tile glue… I can mix about 5 buckets worth on a full charge which is a lot better than the 2 I get with the 2.0 ones. the 9.0 would mix any bucket I needed in a day but if I mix more than 5 buckets I would pull out the cord and a mixer drill. I like the cordless for quick use, where I need to go from mixing a bucket to drilling holes for drains or vents. and even plumbing. the 5.0 lasts me a week with a full charge most cases. so going to the 9.0 for me right now would be pointless. however, the circ saw or recip saw would be able to make the choice easier on the 9.0

chewie17 wrote:

i would put a 9.0 in a fuel skilsaw, or the sawzall, I don’t have either tool yet but if I was going to get them I would buy a 9.0 for them. I have 2 2.0 and 1 5.0 for my fuel impact and drill I use the 5.0 in my drill for when I need a bucket of 20 minute drywall mud or a bucket of tile glue… I can mix about 5 buckets worth on a full charge which is a lot better than the 2 I get with the 2.0 ones. the 9.0 would mix any bucket I needed in a day but if I mix more than 5 buckets I would pull out the cord and a mixer drill. I like the cordless for quick use, where I need to go from mixing a bucket to drilling holes for drains or vents. and even plumbing. the 5.0 lasts me a week with a full charge most cases. so going to the 9.0 for me right now would be pointless. however, the circ saw or recip saw would be able to make the choice easier on the 9.0

Unless I’m doing some heavy drilling I’d probably stick with the 5.0, but for the saws, even the band saw, new lights, sds drills, the higher cal batteries would be good. As long as the price isn’t redo cultus I’ll probably pick up a 6.0 and maybe a 9.0.

Jimbo

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jimboslice wrote:

Unless I’m doing some heavy drilling I’d probably stick with the 5.0, but for the saws, even the band saw, new lights, sds drills, the higher cal batteries would be good. As long as the price isn’t redo cultus I’ll probably pick up a 6.0 and maybe a 9.0.

Jimbo

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chewie17 wrote:

I forgot about the lights! But again price could be an issue… If they have a price point of anywhere near $180 I’d be okay with it. Considering the 5.0 are at $150 here at the local HD.

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At Hd for 99 you can get a 5.0 with a charger, it’s not the rapid charge but you could probably sell it for 30 bucks on eBay.

Jimbo

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Canada or US? There’s a huge price difference between us haha

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Now it’s time for Dewalt to get on board!

I think a larger cordless tool like a miter would be ideal for a 9Ah pack like this. Also Milwaukee showed the 9Ah is superior to 2x5Ah packs. More cells internally means a drop in overall internal resistance in the pack so it gives better runtime, less heat and a other advantages like ability to do heavy work over extended periods of time without overheating the pack. Size and weight are the downsides for the 9Ah pack but for a miter saw or larger hand tools like an SDS, or their LED work lights or other two handed type tools the size and weight increase are a worthwhile trade off imho.

Makitas 36v dual battery tools are nice and two 18v packs are nice but they add considerable bulk to all but the largest tools and you have to make sure you always have a pair of equally charged batteries available otherwise you’re going to limited to the weaker pack. Also the tool has to be 36v to use two packs. Milwaukee’s 9Ah pack should supercharge any m18 tool or light or vacuum…

The angle grinder would just love a 9ah battery. They drain the 5ah battery so quickly, the other battery you just drained, doesn’t even have time to start charging (cooldown mode) before you have drained yet another one.

JerryNY wrote:

I think a larger cordless tool like a miter would be ideal for a 9Ah pack like this. Also Milwaukee showed the 9Ah is superior to 2x5Ah packs. More cells internally means a drop in overall internal resistance in the pack so it gives better runtime, less heat and a other advantages like ability to do heavy work over extended periods of time without overheating the pack. Size and weight are the downsides for the 9Ah pack but for a miter saw or larger hand tools like an SDS, or their LED work lights or other two handed type tools the size and weight increase are a worthwhile trade off imho.

Makitas 36v dual battery tools are nice and two 18v packs are nice but they add considerable bulk to all but the largest tools and you have to make sure you always have a pair of equally charged batteries available otherwise you’re going to limited to the weaker pack. Also the tool has to be 36v to use two packs. Milwaukee’s 9Ah pack should supercharge any m18 tool or light or vacuum…

And where had Milwaukee ‘proven’ that a 9 amp is better then 2×5 amp batteries ?

I would like to see that.

A Milwaukee 9 amp divides the needed amperage between 3 rows of cells.

A Makita 18×2 tool divides the needed amperage between 4 rows of cells. Your story about less heat. Less eternal resistance. Less strain on the batteries, etc….. Thats true for the dual 18v setup more then it is for a single 9 amp pack.

Thats suite logical ? 🙂

60 amp draw on a 9 amp Milwaukee battery means 20 amp draw from each row of cells.

60 amp draw on a Makita dual 18v setup means 15 amp draw from each row of cells… Thus.. Less heat. Resistance and strain on the Makita batteries.

The added bulk is a negatieve tho !

Milwaukee did have a demonstration where they were comparing amperage draw on their new 9amp compared to the older 5 amp battery. The test showed that the 9 amp had alot longer runtime compared to the 5 amp then you would suspect from having 4 amps more.

This is also quite logical. The current draw is split between 3 rows of cells in the 9 amp.

And on the 5 amp that current is split between 2 rows this increaing heat and internal resistance leading to less runtime on the 5 amp.

That idea is ‘double’ true for the Makita 18×2 system. It has 4 rows of cells to split current draw too.

Andrull wrote:

The angle grinder would just love a 9ah battery. They drain the 5ah battery so quickly, the other battery you just drained, doesn’t even have time to start charging (cooldown mode) before you have drained yet another one.

hmm odd, I run my fuel grinder with 4.0 batteries and don’t seem to have that problem sure the 9.0 would give it longer run time but the 4.0 does just fine 

I heard about the bigger batteries coming out… Also, I am pretty sure they are coming out with a larger hammer drill (1 3/4″) so it would make sense that they are going to have larger capacity batteries for these tools.

kornomaniac wrote:

Milwaukee did have a demonstration where they were comparing amperage draw on their new 9amp compared to the older 5 amp battery. The test showed that the 9 amp had alot longer runtime compared to the 5 amp then you would suspect from having 4 amps more.

This is also quite logical. The current draw is split between 3 rows of cells in the 9 amp.

And on the 5 amp that current is split between 2 rows this increaing heat and internal resistance leading to less runtime on the 5 amp.

That idea is ‘double’ true for the Makita 18×2 system. It has 4 rows of cells to split current draw too.

Also it’s worth repeating the advantages of Milwaukee’s 9Ah battery appllies to every M18 tool they make. You only get to take advantage of the 18vx2 36v Makita system on those specific tools, no matter how nice they are. That being said there are disadvantages where you probably won’t want to use the 9er on a tiny impact driver or other smallish one handed tools where the size and weight would just make it unwieldy and tiresome.

Yeah also true ! 🙂

Drills and impacts go by with a 4 or 5 amp good enough ^^

I’m sure the higher AH batteries have their place with certain cordless tools. But I would be running out to buy them, I would invest that money in another tool.

Well true. There’s a lot to be said for using the smallest battery you can get away with so you don’t waste your own energy carrying it around getting fatigued.

Andrull wrote:

The angle grinder would just love a 9ah battery. They drain the 5ah battery so quickly, the other battery you just drained, doesn’t even have time to start charging (cooldown mode) before you have drained yet another one.

You nailed it. Not many tools are super hard on batteries, but a few are…the grinder, blower, etc…can really use a big boy. 

The two row batteries is a nice all-rounder, but a single (2ah) and triple row (9ah) is nice in a couple of cases.

And no, in easy words, it doesn’t really matter if you have two batteries connected in parallell or if it’s one that connect it in series. Or that you have one large pack.

What count is as some people have said, is the load each cell sees. The easiest way is just take the total wattage of the tool and divide it between total number of cells.

This is the easy way. Sure, there are a few smaller differences in reality, but it is barely worth noting in this context. The example of a tool that connects two batteries in series would be the most efficent and best. Since it will have slightly lower losses in the wiring/winding, and could get away with slightly less copper, making the motor slightly lighter.

The two other examples would perform identical. If you have two batteries in parallell, or just a double sized battery pack.

In this context, the 9Ah is just an extra row, not two, so it will be the inferior in every comparison, except weight of course

Ps: Connecting two batteries in parallell would half the total internal resistance. Just like using two resistors in parallell.

Lets get the whole power thing straight. We can really ignore voltage and current and just work with power.  Batteries have a max power output dependent on the number and type of cells independent of their arrangement.  Over this the batteries heat up too much. The motor also has a max power before it overheats. Between these two theres an essentially lossless limiter so the power limiting part is not overdrawn or overdriven. In a tool like an impact driver the motor will always be a limiting factor so increasing the battery size wont help but for a circular saw or rotary hammer power is limited by the battery so the 9Ah will give more power IF the power limiter is set to draw more power from it.

Are you saying the circular saw ( a tool designed when 4 and 5 amp batteries where the norm ) will gain in power when you put a 9 amp on it ?

Or do you mean that a newer and bigger circulzr saw could be made to take advantage of the 9 amp batteries ?

Option 1 doesnt seem logical. Option 2 does 🙂

kornomaniac wrote:

Are you saying the circular saw ( a tool designed when 4 and 5 amp batteries where the norm ) will gain in power when you put a 9 amp on it ?

Or do you mean that a newer and bigger circulzr saw could be made to take advantage of the 9 amp batteries ?

Option 1 doesnt seem logical. Option 2 does 🙂

I think this can happen (Option1) when the original battery ampage was the limiting factor, rather than the tool motor.

In contrary to jeff’s statement above, Impact Drivers do see power increases from larger batteries. You often see higher torque rating on kits with larger capacity batteries, and I have tested and confirmed that the difference can be noticeable. (i tested with Dewalt 20V)

Kornomaniac, an old circular saw definitely could get that 50% more power if milwaukee built in the compatibility.  Those are some pretty high power motors.  

dwain wrote:

I think this can happen (Option1) when the original battery ampage was the limiting factor, rather than the tool motor.

 

In contrary to jeff’s statement above, Impact Drivers do see power increases from larger batteries. You often see higher torque rating on kits with larger capacity batteries, and I have tested and confirmed that the difference can be noticeable. (i tested with Dewalt 20V)

That’s surprising.  The motors in those are so small I would not expect the battery to be a limiting factor.  How much of power difference was it?  I know there can be a small increase because the reduced internal resistance that gives a smaller voltage drop across the battery, but nothing like the potentially double power output between a 2 and 4Ah battery using the same cells.

I guess this needs a disclaimer that this is mostly from experience with other power electronics.  Depending on how manufacturers build the control circuits or lack thereof the tools could differ considerably from that ideal case.  With economics of scale it would almost certainly be more cost effective to use the same internals between premium and budget tools, but just tell program one to run at lower power, or better yet design higher capabilities and re-release the same tool programmed to be more powerful after a year or two.

Their not big enough I need more power MmMmmwwwwahahahahahaha

I wish i had a powertool / battery engineer living next to me ! so many questions !

jeffmcmillan wrote:

That’s surprising.  The motors in those are so small I would not expect the battery to be a limiting factor.  How much of power difference was it?  I know there can be a small increase because the reduced internal resistance that gives a smaller voltage drop across the battery, but nothing like the potentially double power output between a 2 and 4Ah battery using the same cells.

 

Certainly not double the power, i guess you can check some manufacturer specs. From memory it might drop the  torque ~10%. But in a tough test (like coach screws), that seems to make more like a ~25% time difference.

Here in belgium Milwaukee gives torque specs both for a compact battery and for a big battery 🙂

Would not have thought that a small impact driver would have anything in the range of 10 % decline, but sure, I have not tested it so I just might be true. 

In theory, that is to be expected. Since the voltage drop would be twice as much at the smaller compact batteries. Probably in the range of 0,5V on normal 5Ah batteries, and 1V on compact batteries at peak load. 

On a fully charged battery, that means the motor would only see around 19,5V VS 20V. And certainly, the motor performance would be a bit lower. 

This difference rises with rising load, and thats why I didn’t thought drivers would pull enough juice for it to be relevant. 🙂

I’m planning a larger test next year with some pretty decent test equipment on a couple of makita power tools. More focused on just the fun stuff, numbers. Measuring amp draw, voltage, input power, resistance (ESR) in batteries, charging curve, and a more sophisticated testing rig for power output. At least, thats what I’m hoping to do. Really seeing how the equipment differs at different loads. Really putting a lot of theese interesting questions to rest. Also, if accuratly enough, it will be possible to really find the sweet spots and weak points.

Sad part is that I don’t have more power tools to test. 🙁 But that’s a worry for another day. 

Interesting discussion. Milwaukee has been enabling more torque on tools with larger batteries attached for a while now. They listed the original Fuel drill as having 725 in-lbs of torque with an XC battery and 650 in-lbs with smaller batteries, roughly 10% difference.

6.0ah and 9.0ah coming soon, at least in the UK anyway!

Interesting the 9.0ah is only £30 more expensive than the 6.0ah and the new pack with 2 x 9.0ah batteries, fast charger and kit box is only £349.00 (ex VAT)!  Pretty good price!

These are taken from the latest Heavy Duty News on the Milwaukee UK website.

Martin

I need to get a rapid charger

Are they using Panasonic cells in these packs?

Quote

[External image (www.professional-power-tool-guide.com), not copied]

HAHAHAHA, needs more thunderbolts!!! Reminds me of Powerthirst. 

For some reason I can’t see any of the pics. Is anyone eles having this issue?

Millerz

Gharddog03 wrote:

1 hour ago, Gharddog03 said:

Are they using Panasonic cells in these packs?

Unless things have changed from about a year ago, Milwaukee uses Samsung cells. Dewalt uses Panasonic.

…advantage, Dewalt.

Wow. Had no idea dewalt uses pannys.

thanks for the info. 

Millerzconstruction wrote:

11 hours ago, Millerzconstruction said:

For some reason I can’t see any of the pics. Is anyone eles having this issue?

Millerz

I am able to see them fine. Could be just a glitch with the new forum.

Not all pictures show up from tapatalk

Jimbo

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