kentcatlett wrote:
11 hours ago, kentcatlett said:All the hype for this. Another battery platform? What about the 40v OPE stuff that just came out last year, is that going away? Should I return my oil leaking, battery killing,no power having chainsaw I just bought? Yes I was doing that anyway. So I guess we are not getting a good 20v brushless recip saw, which is what I was hoping for more then anything else. Oh well. The area light and the threaded rod cutter does look interesting. The press tool is a definate for me. But all and all kind of a let down, I see the 60v stuff going the way of the 36 volt stuff especially if the price is too high. I also wasn’t impressed with the milwaukee show either, I mean how many lights do you need?
Welcome to the forum Kent. The 40v lineup is specifically designed for their outdoor stuff so it’s going to stay and continue to develop. I just read in interesting post on toolyguyd where Stuart specifically speaks on the matter. Hope this helps dude!
I am disappointed there was no 20v tools released or concepts shown.
Where is the 20v 18ga nailer already!? I am already bummed the 20v 16ga angled finish nailer is not as strong as the old 18v unit.
That and Porter Cable today released 3 new 20v nailers on their platform! Come on DeWalt, this is ridiculous.
I’m scared to even think of the cost in europe. I’m guessing close to double them dollar prices. Dcf887 is €190 bare tool at the moment
Already on sale! Woohoo!
$499.00 For 1 light and a battery I guess that’s a bargain if you have no power where you are working. But then again you will need a ton of batteries going if you have no power to recharge your batteries. Or you buy a generator and light the whole job site up.
Looks like they tried to undercut Milwaukee prices, the miter saw has a hefty tag, table saw price isn’t bad but odd blade size. Light is nuts for that price, I thought 299 was nuts for milwaukees beacon looking light
Jimbo
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Turner85 wrote:
2 hours ago, Turner85 said:I’m scared to even think of the cost in europe. I’m guessing close to double them dollar prices. Dcf887 is €190 bare tool at the moment
You can say that again Im guessing €500 minimum for some of the new stuff. We always get shafted in Ireland.
JimboS1ice wrote:
1 hour ago, JimboS1ice said:Looks like they tried to undercut Milwaukee prices, the miter saw has a hefty tag, table saw price isn’t bad but odd blade size. Light is nuts for that price, I thought 299 was nuts for milwaukees beacon looking light
Jimbo
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The miter saw is a cordless or corded DWS780 which is $600 retail. The price is solid.
Agree on the table saw, not going to 10in was a mistake as well as keeping it 60v instead of 120v. I would expect them to have an upgrade before long to make up for this once sales aren’t what they were expecting.
The light isn’t nuts exactly. It’s a cordless bright area light ( say $300 value). It’s a battery charger ($79), stackable, chainable, extra outlet, compact, bluetooth, adjustable brightness…there’s a lot going on there functionality wise. The Milwaukee trueview for comparisons sake is 2000 lumens, less than a third as powerful and focus beamed instead of 360.
People who are saying “I’m still waiting on a 20v brushless recip and circ saw”… The new 60v recip and circ are brushless and while they run on the 60v battery, you can still use those 60v batteries in your other 20v tools. So the only down fall is you have to buy new batteries when you get these new brushless saws. But those batteries will work in your other tools. So there really isn’t a big problem in my opinion. The 60v batteries are retailing for $10 more than the 5.0 20v batteries, so you can almost consider these new saws part of your 20v system (almost). You also get a lot more power than the Fuel.
Gatorb888 wrote:
30 minutes ago, Gatorb888 said:People who are saying “I’m still waiting on a 20v brushless recip and circ saw”… The new 60v recip and circ are brushless and while they run on the 60v battery, you can still use those 60v batteries in your other 20v tools. So the only down fall is you have to buy new batteries when you get these new brushless saws. But those batteries will work in your other tools. So there really isn’t a big problem in my opinion. The 60v batteries are retailing for $10 more than the 5.0 20v batteries, so you can almost consider these new saws part of your 20v system (almost). You also get a lot more power than the Fuel.
That’s how I see it, but at the same time those tools should be released on 20v as well. No reason not to have both things going for obvious reasons, if 20v is powerful enough to have it, make it. Some don’t need 60v power more less the added cost. Others like ourselves look forward to essentially extending the 20v line beyond it’s capability for those few tools we need and can’t have.
Sure but 1 battery costs almost what the tool does. and what good is having 1 battery when it dies. So now ur spending another $200 on batteries just to upgrade one of your (probably already existing) tools because none of your other 5+ batteries will work in it. I can see that for a big bad specialty tool but not a recip or circ saw.
9.0 Milwaukee is going to be 199, a lot of new red tools are optimized for the 9.0
Jimbo
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I’m tempted on the Dewalt Miter Saw $799 for the saw and accessories is a really nice price they might even have some launch promo’s to make the deal even sweeter. The Fuel is a nice saw and much more compact and weights a little bit less I like the option of running off AC power though and a full 12″ slider. I figure i can get some good money out of my Bosch saw it looks brand new basically.
JimboS1ice wrote:
10 minutes ago, JimboS1ice said:9.0 Milwaukee is going to be 199, a lot of new red tools are optimized for the 9.0
Jimbo
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So the cost of 2 of the new Flexvolt batteries. Firm pass.
Hugh Jass wrote:
So the cost of 2 of the new Flexvolt batteries. Firm pass.
I wonder how the runtime thought is going to be on the flex volts, I saw the 2 pack for 199 that’s not bad really, the stuff isn’t priced too terrible really, couple things like I said that sliding miter kit for 749 a little hefty but I’d rather take a corded
Jimbo
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Hugh Jass wrote:
Just now, Hugh Jass said:
So the cost of 2 of the new Flexvolt batteries. Firm pass.
Minus the additional cost of having to buy a new tool
The thing you have to consider $199 for only 4ah on a 60v tool.
AnonymousJoe wrote:
1 minute ago, AnonymousJoe said:Minus the additional cost of having to buy a new tool
Uhh, no…no additional cost for a tool. Two pack of batteries, $199.
MikeInCtown wrote:
8 hours ago, MikeInCtown said:
First, those corded tools that were passed down cost a bunch of money back in the day. You might sit there and think well he paid $100 for it and now they are $200, but you don’t realize that the $100 back then might be worth $350 today. As far as today’s cost, you need to weight the benefits. A compact impact driver to me is well worth the $200 price tag if I can program it like I can, and I can crawl under a car withouta cord, or change a tire on the side of the road with it, or grab the tool and go from location to location without coiling up a cord every 5 minutes. Time is money. The last three times I’ve used my compact impact at work I would guess I saved myself well over an hour in labor just by not needing to constantly move or coil an extension cord. That time saved already paid for any extra cost of the impact, and that is only a month into ownership.
Those old tools are also far heavier than the ones on the market today, which means you may fatigue faster and get less work done. They are also corded so you need to have electric available where you are working. so that means extra time spent running cords, the cost of a temporary panel, or cost of a portable generator. You also look more professional if you aren’t asking your client where you can plug in your stuff.
As far as batteries, DeWalt is still selling their old 18V packs that they used in the drills 20 years back. Hell i still got one! never use it though because it is so slow and underpowered compared to today’s models. Still, even if they stopped producing the batteries, you can still buy the Sub C cells and repair them yourself.
I do see your point though in having some corded tools. High draw high use tools are better off being corded. For the majority of a lot of people though, both professional and homeowner, cordless is a far better choice for most needs.
You brought up some great points that I agree with. Especially when it comes to drills. I’d take a cordless M18 Fuel Drill/Driver over a corded most of the time, if not, all the time. The same can be said for the new lights (Especially the Milwaukee and the new DeWalt coming out soon). These cordless lights are super bright, give off less heat and they don’t take up another spot on the power strip. There are many great reasons to have cordless tools. Portability and Convenience being on the top of my list.
The only cordless tools that I can’t justify purchasing for myself are large miter saws or table saws (The exception being the DeWalt 7-1/4″ 20V Max Miter because of how portable and light it is). To me, these are more stationary tools. Once lugged to a jobsite, they are usually kept in the same place. Miter saw is usually reserved for finish work anyway where power is available.
For $400, I could get a really great DeWalt DWS709 and it would last for a very long time.
I just look at how everything is going nowadays with such a throw away economy. Where everything is made of plastic and lithium and wonder how long will these last? Yes, I still have some very old Makita/DeWalt drills that still kind of work, but that’s okay with me. Buying a new cordless drill every 5 to 7 years is not that big a deal. Where it becomes an issue is that I don’t want to buy a new Miter Saw every so often, or a new table saw, or a planer, or jointer, or blah blah blah.
I’m not hating on cordless, I love cordless. I know this is a DeWalt thread, but Milwaukee Fuel is what I have invested myself in. I encourage these companies to continue to produce more powerful cordless tools. It just makes it better for the industry and for all of us as a whole. I just had to put the brakes on myself because I was heavily bitten by the Milwaukee marketing campaign and found myself wanting to go entirely cordless but when I really think about it, why would I really need a cordless 10″ miter when my 12″ corded miter has been doing a perfect job for the last 15 years?. Ah it’s probably just a budget issue for me and I’m positive that a cordless 10″ miter is a god send for folks out there.
bottomline: cordless tools are awesome, but don’t overlook the corded tools that are out there. (until they make a cordless wormdrive, lol)
DR99 wrote:
Just now, DR99 said:The thing you have to consider $199 for only 4ah on a 60v tool.
And you have to consider that it’s 12amps for a 20v tool. Your point? It’s a better value than the 9ah. It’s more flexible than the 9ah because I can run two tools while the 9ah can only run one.
There’s no debate here. The dewalt batteries are a better value.
Hugh Jass wrote:
2 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:The light isn’t nuts exactly. It’s a cordless bright area light ( say $300 value). It’s a battery charger ($79), stackable, chainable, extra outlet, compact, bluetooth, adjustable brightness…there’s a lot going on there functionality wise. The Milwaukee trueview for comparisons sake is 2000 lumens, less than a third as powerful and focus beamed instead of 360.
I thought the pumpkin is 4400 lumens? Also looks to be more compact. Hopefully having similar products competing drives down prices for both teams.
At the prices you guys are mentioning FlexVolt definitely seems a better deal than M18 9.0. That said its been easy to find 2 packs of 5.0s here for $200 Canadian, so ideally the 9.0 hits the wild around $150 Canadian or so.
So was the event purely for the flex volt or will we see news on the new 20V additions?
Rtorres092382 wrote:
So was the event purely for the flex volt or will we see news on the new 20V additions?
Proto hand tools, toolboxes, Porter cable brushless drill, different things under the Stanley b&d umbrella. Check out the TIA periscopes for stuff now or probably few videos going up soon
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Rtorres092382 wrote:
1 hour ago, Rtorres092382 said:So was the event purely for the flex volt or will we see news on the new 20V additions?
Dewalt rep said lots more to come.
Any idea on a timeline for the other stuff@wildroamer?
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Not really. This was a customer service rep. She mentioned that there would be more releases in next week or so. I asked about 20v tools and she indicated there would be some.
Not sure how much she really knew.
wildroamer wrote:
1 hour ago, wildroamer said:Dewalt rep said lots more to come.
From the event or just generally over the course of the year?
Bremon wrote:
2 hours ago, Bremon said:I thought the pumpkin is 4400 lumens? Also looks to be more compact. Hopefully having similar products competing drives down prices for both teams.
At the prices you guys are mentioning FlexVolt definitely seems a better deal than M18 9.0. That said its been easy to find 2 packs of 5.0s here for $200 Canadian, so ideally the 9.0 hits the wild around $150 Canadian or so.
Have no idea what the “pumpkin” is. Have a link or anything? I tried searching and found what I mentioned in the $250-$300 range so I used it for comparison.
I know that none of this new stuff from DeWalt will make it into my tool box. None of these tools will help increase my production or make my job any easier. I’m getting ready to replace my 780 miter saw so I was waiting to see what they were coming out with. Looks like it is going to be replaced with a Kapex.
Hugh Jass wrote:
21 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:
Have no idea what the “pumpkin” is. Have a link or anything? I tried searching and found what I mentioned in the $250-$300 range so I used it for comparison.
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/lighting?product+types=S
the Radius compact site light
The.Handyman wrote:
12 hours ago, The.Handyman said:I am disappointed there was no 20v tools released or concepts shown.
Where is the 20v 18ga nailer already!? I am already bummed the 20v 16ga angled finish nailer is not as strong as the old 18v unit.
That and Porter Cable today released 3 new 20v nailers on their platform! Come on DeWalt, this is ridiculous.
You do realize PC and dewalt r both stanley black and Decker right
iam76 wrote:
You do realize PC and dewalt r both stanley black and Decker right
Yes, that should be common knowledge here in the depth of tool discussion. What is your point? The fact they are both are housed under one company yet DeWalt doesn’t have nailers out and Porter-Cable does seems like a problem for DeWalt to me. Everyone has nailers now, but DeWalt. Ugh.
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JimboS1ice wrote:
9 hours ago, JimboS1ice said:Looks like they tried to undercut Milwaukee prices, the miter saw has a hefty tag, table saw price isn’t bad but odd blade size. Light is nuts for that price, I thought 299 was nuts for milwaukees beacon looking light
Jimbo
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It’s kinda crazy how these tool companies are pushing upmarket with their lights and it’s pretty obvious Milwaukee and Dewalt are targeting large corporate accounts with many of them. They both must have some big market research that there is a big demand for these job site lights and maybe there’re lighting safety requirements coming down the pike that they are trying to get ahead of.
DR99 wrote:
The thing you have to consider $199 for only 4ah on a 60v tool.
Is it not 2ah at 60v?
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StrippedScrew wrote:
8 hours ago, StrippedScrew said:
You can say that again Im guessing €500 minimum for some of the new stuff. We always get shafted in Ireland.
Sure the bluetooth batteries were around the €200 mark aswell. So these flexvolt will be more than that
Hugh Jass wrote:
On June 21, 2016 at 8:40 PM, Hugh Jass said:
9ah is literally too much IMO. A case could be made for the SCMS, Table Saw, Grinder, and the SDS hammer drill, but again, I’d rather half two half’s than a whole myself. By the time you furnish enough batteries at that amperage to overcome the charge times and lack of ability to operate 2 separate tools at once when needed, I could buy a house in St. Croix.
Well I agree somewhat but it’s always nice to have the option for a bigger pack. But yeah I think the 9amp pack wasn’t an accident for Milwaukee. It’s intended purpose is for largish stationary (miter saw) and brutish two handed workhorses that are already heavy so the added bulk won’t be noticeable like an SDS hammer, hole hang and maybe a grinder which can never have enough Ah’s. They aren’t intended to be used on a compact impact or other one handed tools. That being said Milwaukee’s push into outdoor power tools was going to require either a new 40v platform OR a big ass 9 Ah pack. They chose the latter for simplicity and backwards compatibility.
I think Dewalt approached the same problem from a different angle. They already had outdoor 40v packs and didn’t want to share that with its regular power tools because they are generally too big and incompatible which would piss people off. They really needed a bigger pack for a 12″ miter and 3x40v was going to be super awkward so they made the flexvolt system to get to the magic 120v with only two batteries. This is important because obviously it let them make the saw mains capable with that adapter and no matter how you slice it, no pun intended, a 12′ saw running off battery is going to be a HUGE battery drainer. I suspect most of these saws will spend the majority of their life hooked up to an outlet anyway and that’s ok. Brushless motors are great for this because a 120v brushless motor for all intents and purposes IS AN A/C MOTOR so besides maybe some extra line voltage filtering to smooth things out runs exactly the same on battery or A/C. (Personally I think the 60v part of their new system solely exists to get 120v out of two batteries) Hats off to a somewhat elegant solution from Dewalt. In some ways Milwaukees 9Ah strategy is simpler and more elegant and Dewalt’s is much more complicated but elegant in other ways. It’s all good, progress in the tech makes for better tools for all.
It made me so happy finding out that the old chargers will still work I would never have got the new tools and batteries otherwise but I definitely will now. Good on you Dewalt
maybe @ GATORb888
or anybody that can comment constuctively
==> what is the reason / background that the new flexvolt batteries do not have bluetooth functionality
when introducing such a product should they not have this ??
there were so many advantages listed on the 20v max release of bluetooth batt
(and the app,etc. is already there!)
midogrumpy wrote:
34 minutes ago, midogrumpy said:maybe @ GATORb888
or anybody that can comment constuctively
==> what is the reason / background that the new flexvolt batteries do not have bluetooth functionality
when introducing such a product should they not have this ??
there were so many advantages listed on the 20v max release of bluetooth batt
(and the app,etc. is already there!)
Could be many reasons. Cost might be a factor; the multiple voltage circuitry might be complicated and add cost making it an even more costly and complicated to add he BT module, also it might have meant that they needed to make the BT module multi voltage too. They might not have confidence in BT right now as being a feature many really desire. I just think they already were introducing very new technology and didn’t want to complicate the battery more than they needed and add extra cost to an already expensive battery. BT isn’t critical to the new system working and they could always add it later if demand is there. Right now the 20/40/60v switching is the star of the show so why dilute the message with non critical add ons that don’t really enhance power or runtime.
midogrumpy wrote:
1 hour ago, midogrumpy said:maybe @ GATORb888
or anybody that can comment constuctively
==> what is the reason / background that the new flexvolt batteries do not have bluetooth functionality
when introducing such a product should they not have this ??
there were so many advantages listed on the 20v max release of bluetooth batt
(and the app,etc. is already there!)
It probably not that constructive but honestly both the dewalt and milwaukee smart batteries are a gimmick and the fact that they didn’t include it in the new platforms shows that. If it was a really useful new feature that was winning lots of sales and contractors were crying out for they would have found a way to include it even if it would have required a bit of extra R and D, it isn’t so they didn’t bother
Turner85 wrote:
4 hours ago, Turner85 said:Is it not 2ah at 60v?
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He was referring to the twin pack of batteries.
2x 2Ah = 4Ah
Rtorres092382 wrote:
8 hours ago, Rtorres092382 said:
From the event or just generally over the course of the year?
She said more would be coming out over the next few weeks.
wildroamer wrote:
9 hours ago, wildroamer said:Dewalt rep said lots more to come.
There better be!
I agree. I really want to see some brushless 20’s that take the same lighter batteries as my drill and driver set.
Hugh Jass wrote:
13 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:
And you have to consider that it’s 12amps for a 20v tool. Your point? It’s a better value than the 9ah. It’s more flexible than the 9ah because I can run two tools while the 9ah can only run one.
There’s no debate here. The dewalt batteries are a better value.
Unless there is some magic involved, either battery can only run one tool at a time. You may think that the new battery can run two tools because one is a higher voltage but in reality if the other company has the same tools that run on the same battery then it’s a wash and you get zero benefit other than the marketing of higher voltage.
Hugh Jass wrote:
And you have to consider that it’s 12amps for a 20v tool. Your point? It’s a better value than the 9ah. It’s more flexible than the 9ah because I can run two tools while the 9ah can only run one.
There’s no debate here. The dewalt batteries are a better value.
Yes and runtime shouldn’t be any issue as in most cases one will be charged before the other is flat in the real world , they are better value as they can be used on two platforms
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zinzander wrote:
It probably not that constructive but honestly both the dewalt and milwaukee smart batteries are a gimmick and the fact that they didn’t include it in the new platforms shows that. If it was a really useful new feature that was winning lots of sales and contractors were crying out for they would have found a way to include it even if it would have required a bit of extra R and D, it isn’t so they didn’t bother
The whole Bluetooth thing in batteries doesn’t appeal to me in anyway as all I want to know is how much charge my battery has in it and pressing the button on the back is good enough for me I’m not fussed how many cycles it’s done or disabling the battery incase someone tries to use it ! What I would like to see is a bit like one key where you could type in the exact torque of an impact driver so if you had to do head bolts up to an exact torque then you could enter say ” 50nm” and the impact would be exactly 50nm that would be useful
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Unfortunately that’s not how One Key works currently. It’s just a sliding scale between low power and high, not specific torque values, which makes it not a whole lot more useful than preset button settings. I was going to get the One Key version of the 3/8″ compact impact but the price was 33% more for bare tool than the “No Key” version and it’s improved control meant I didn’t need to feather the trigger as much. Thanks but no thanks.
Im skeptical that we will see anything more specific from any manufacturer. They would need a matrix where you could input metrics like bolt grade, size, thread pitch, etc. I would think.
As as far as FlexVolt is concerned, I would rather see less expensive batteries over higher priced versions w Bluetooth
I know Bosch and Makita both have a line of production tools used in defence/Aerospace industries/ car manufacture.
These tools all have extreme exact torque settings.
These tools are very expensive 😛