Archived from the Tools In Action forum (Hand Tools). This thread is read-only.
About 2 years ago I made the leap to Milwaukee for my hand tools. I did everything except strippers as I thought the combo needle nose strippers were dumb. I was fairly happy but the bigger Philips and both Robertson’s have all rounded out. I love the Exabit (?) drivers but I’m underwhelmed by the tips wearing out from really not that heavy of use. I use drills and bits FAR more than hand tools as I find turning screws by hand makes my forearms just scream. I know some will say it’s been 2 years! That’s true but they rounded off rather quickly and are now to the point of being rather useless. I can’t really torque down anything without them popping out. If they just now started going bad I probably wouldn’t even bother asking about it.
Klein used to be my go to but I really feel their quality has suffered and that’s why I gave Red a shot. Greenlee seems to be about the same. Kind of hit and miss.
I’ve seen Wera but their grips look lousy. All hard, unpleasant looking, and not really appealing, but maybe they’re much better in actual use. The Milwaukee grips are actually probably my favorite. Older Klein with the softer rubber is very nice too but the new stuff is hard and gross.
My Milwaukee original 6-in-1 pliers started siezing up last fall and we’re replaced with a set of the NWS/Irwin 9.5″ crimping linesmen.
So what’s your suggestions and recommendations? Anything to avoid? Does Milwaukee replace screw drivers with rounded out tips? They’ve definitely seen use but I wouldn’t say it’s been excessive. The Exabit ones are still awesome and I use them if at all possible, in part because of the roundedness of the alternatives but also because they’re just awesome at not slipping or stripping out. I think some of the problems are because of the crap screws. I don’t know if crap screws are actually a thing but some of them seem to just be complete garbage. They do everything but fasten look they’re supposed to.
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Most Philips screws are garage to begin with but milwaukees stuff tends to be softer. I run Klein screw drivers, I know you don’t like them but I jut picked up knipex pliers for my electrical bag, all great quality. For screwdrivers try Wiha, they make some nice stuff and don’t have the grips like the weras.
Jimbo
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That is interesting about you using Milwaukee hand tools for the past two years, I’ve not considered them to be a serious option when looking at hand tools, because I always gravitate toward Klein and never gave it a second thought.
From what others have posted here, Wera is a better option, despite your best efforts to convince yourself away from them, definitely put them up there as a prime contender. I have been looking closely at a set of screwdrivers and just need to make the final leap to purchase them.
I’m glad you chose to share your experience, I may be predominantly Milwaukee, but my decisions are more calculated than emotional, so I will likely go looking somewhere else when I hear experiences like yours.
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I didn’t think I’d like the Wera grip but I do. I like Felo’s grip even better, it’s rubbery but not sticky and as you grip harder it gives a little bit being both comfortable and giving you better grip. Recently I’ve been using my PB Swiss and those are growing on me, the steel is the nicest I’ve seen but the handles are thinner than I’d like.
By the way noops if anyone here is going to steer you the right way it’s these it’s Bmack.
Jimbo
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JimboS1ice wrote:
5 minutes ago, JimboS1ice said:By the way noops if anyone here is going to steer you the right way it’s these it’s Bmack.
Jimbo
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You just say that because you know I have a screwdriver problem, haha
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Wow. So which ones goes into your go bag there Bmack?
I guess soft would be a good way of describing the Milwaukee tips. They’re really nice otherwise but the tips need to be harder or something. I’ve not had any problems with the flat blades. Neither the demo’s or the normal plate types really show any wear and the plates get used ALL the time and the demo’s really do get hammered on.
I notice the Klein is at the back and no mention of it… It’s not that I hate them it’s just when I replaced the ones I got 15 years ago the replacements seemed inferior to the originals. Milwaukee was definitely cheaper but the tips really are too soft. They’re great when they’re new but less than stellar after they’ve worn.
As far as electrical tools go I have a cross of Channellock and Klein. I don’t have enough experience in the field for a reliable recommendation.
I use Wera. I have a full set of insulated screw drivers and a few non insulted. The grip is by far the most comfortable and allows for insane grip and torque compared to Milwaukee and Klein.
I own Milwaukee’s too, they sit in my tool bad for when I need a beater.
The best part about Wera is that they grip the screws and don’t cam out easily.
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HiltiWpg wrote:
I use Wera. I have a full set of insulated screw drivers and a few non insulted. The grip is by far the most comfortable and allows for insane grip and torque compared to Milwaukee and Klein.I own Milwaukee’s too, they sit in my tool bad for when I need a beater.
The best part about Wera is that they grip the screws and don’t cam out easily.
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I am in the same boat as Hilti. For me personally grip comfort doesn’t really matter, that being said the Wera drivers are very comfortable. They really fit my hands well. More important to me was how they grip the screws and that laser etched tip is great. For my money Wera is the only screwdriver in my toolbox. I would like to try the Felo though, they look pretty nice.
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noops wrote:
7 hours ago, noops said:Wow. So which ones goes into your go bag there Bmack?
I guess soft would be a good way of describing the Milwaukee tips. They’re really nice otherwise but the tips need to be harder or something. I’ve not had any problems with the flat blades. Neither the demo’s or the normal plate types really show any wear and the plates get used ALL the time and the demo’s really do get hammered on.
I notice the Klein is at the back and no mention of it… It’s not that I hate them it’s just when I replaced the ones I got 15 years ago the replacements seemed inferior to the originals. Milwaukee was definitely cheaper but the tips really are too soft. They’re great when they’re new but less than stellar after they’ve worn.
Right now it’s the PB Swiss, but it was hard to take the Felo’s out. My only issue with those(Felo) was that they just didn’t like to hold their magnetism and I have a lot of screws recessed screws to deal with. I tend to reach for my Wera more, which is in my tool box and equal distance from the PB Swiss most of the time…the thing is the tips on the Weras are the best by far, they grip soo nicely onto screws because of the laser etching. I hope you can tell by the picture that their grips are smaller than you probably initially imagined, that was my biggest concern before buying them.
I really don’t like the Kleins. They’re made well but they roll off everything because they don’t rest on the handle, they tip over so the blade touches the surface then they roll in a circle until they find their way off where you put them. Also they don’t seem to fit into screws with the same nice fit as the European screwdrivers.
I also really liked the Wittes, they’re the OEM for Matco and are very nice screwdrivers. The only problem is they get dirty fast but that’s not a big deal. They basically lost their spot in the tool bag so I could try others and I just haven’t switched back.
The Wihas are nice too but this particular set is insulated so they rarely get used. I’ve used their bits and they have great steel. The softfinish is basically what feels like a thin rubber coating all over. It feels like their would be durability issues but I’ve seen some mechanics post pics of them well used and they seem to hold up well.
I don’t really like the Snap On screwdrivers at all. The handle is just a big plastic handle and there is nothing that stands out that says “This is a $20 screwdriver” at all. The Tektons(black and red, weird handle) are nice for the price and being USA made but they could use a little better finishing, the edges are sharp.
I’d reach for ANY of these screwdrivers over those Milwaukees, I love Milwaukee but their blade steel is just not very good. Stay away from their bits also. Hope sometime they fix this but right now, stay away.
Of course all of this is just my opinion and some may disagree.
Describing the grips:
Snap on: Hard plastic
Witte: A bit of a hard marshmellow coating like that on some matte phone cases, with three soft scotchbright-esk grip pads.
Tekton: Red portion is hard plastic, black portion is a hard rubber
Wera: Black is a hard plastic, green is a soft rubber that is grippy.
Wiha: Soft rubber all over, the insulated sleeve is hard plastic
Felo: Yellow portion is hard plastic, black portion is soft rubber. If you squeeze tightly it compresses like a really hard stress ball.
PB Swiss: Like a softer bedliner coating.
Klein: Feels almost like tire rubber
If you don’t like wera handles, try felo. I really like those handles even though they look a bit strange.
Try a VDE bit driver. My felo one has a strong enough magnet to hold a 1/4″ x 6″ lag on the tip with a 2″ bit and I never have to worry about wearing down the bits.
all my electrical hand tools are klein, made in america for electricians, all my klein screwdrivers are the insulated type, to help protect me and not causing shorts if you should happen to slip. as far as grapping the screw head, i never found anything better than my snap-on set, i dont use these on electrical work though, i dont know what the handles are rated at.
I love my Kleins for electrical work, but I’ll be picking up,some of those Wihas in the future
We have a pair of Milwaukee strippers at work, I like using them so much that I bought a pair for home.
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IMG_0489 by Edward Durbin, on Flickr
Ive seen those they just lowered the price at HD on those
Jimbo
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Just took a look, 5 bucks cheaper than what I paid…
Are those the older model? I think most(if not all) of the newer Milwaukee pliers have a solid red handle…I don’t know about that particular pair. BTW, HD has clearanced out the older pliers so most likely if you find a pair with black and red handles, it will ring up cheaper than the red handled version. Remember you can use self-checkout as a price checker if you don’t want to use the computer, just cancel the transaction by hitting the back button.
Not sure. I know it’s a newer version, an older version the lock was screwing up for a lot of people, breaking, getting stuck, etc.. Used to be plastic I think, can’t remember, but the “newer” ones had a metal lock
BMack37 wrote:
6 hours ago, BMack37 said:Are those the older model? I think most(if not all) of the newer Milwaukee pliers have a solid red handle…I don’t know about that particular pair. BTW, HD has clearanced out the older pliers so most likely if you find a pair with black and red handles, it will ring up cheaper than the red handled version. Remember you can use self-checkout as a price checker if you don’t want to use the computer, just cancel the transaction by hitting the back button.
Those are the old model. I’ve been using a pair for years (well actually on my second now).
I really like the design of those but the metal isn’t very hard so they shouldn’t be used outside of electrical work or really anything besides copper and aluminum.
I had the Milwaukee stripper, that is a great tool. Well thought out.
The only issue I had with it was the weight, it is a heavy tool. Way too heavy for its size.
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jeffmcmillan wrote:
6 hours ago, jeffmcmillan said:I really like the design of those but the metal isn’t very hard so they shouldn’t be used outside of electrical work or really anything besides copper and aluminum.
The pair at work stays locked in my tool bag when I’m not there, mainly because one of the guys used them to cut jack chain…
For screwdrivers I pretty much only use Wiha and Wera anymore in my eletrical kit,I do have a few GreenLee ones i got from college electronic classes that are pretty decent too.
For strippers and crimpers i have Klein,GB,Greenlee,
Insulated stuff i have Gearwrench,Klein,Wiha
mohawkdec wrote:
21 hours ago, mohawkdec said:all my electrical hand tools are klein, made in america for electricians, all my klein screwdrivers are the insulated type, to help protect me and not causing shorts if you should happen to slip. as far as grapping the screw head, i never found anything better than my snap-on set, i dont use these on electrical work though, i dont know what the handles are rated at.
I have this same set of SnapOn drivers too,my favorite handles.
Not a fan of greenlee stuff had a pair of wire strippers that was so so
Jimbo
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Most of my screwdrivers are branded by Stanley. I’m used them for electrical wirings. They are good in insulation and doesn’t electrocute to me.
PROTOOLNUT wrote:
2 hours ago, PROTOOLNUT said:Its nice to see a little hand tool porn, and to learn what your opinion are on the tools you’ve used. I got one of those cheapo electricians pliar found in most cheap electrical terminal kits. They got the wire cutter, and crimper built in, but require so much muscle force to get the job done, and the grips keep sliding off of them too. Show me the best electrical cutter and crimper tool for less then 30 dollars, and I will bookmark it!
In this case don’t bother with an all in one tool. I’ve never seen one that’s worth using and if it existed $30 wouldn’t even come close. Don’t even bother with interchangeable die crimpers unless it’s tool-free which is out of your price range. Here are the tools you’re looking for.
Wire stripper (and cutter): http://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Industrial-Tools-2078300-Self-Adjusting/dp/B000OQ21CA/
Open barrel crimper: http://www.amazon.com/SN-48B-Non-Insulated-Receptacles-Crimping-0-14-1-5mm%C2%B2/dp/B00OMMZ502/
Terminal crimper: http://www.amazon.com/Titan-11477-Ratcheting-Terminal-Crimper/dp/B0069TRKJ0/
Quick change crimper: http://www.amazon.com/Astro-9477-Professional-Interchangeable-Tool/dp/B0045CUMLQ/
PROTOOLNUT wrote:
Its nice to see a little hand tool porn, and to learn what your opinion are on the tools you’ve used. I got one of those cheapo electricians pliar found in most cheap electrical terminal kits. They got the wire cutter, and crimper built in, but require so much muscle force to get the job done, and the grips keep sliding off of them too. Show me the best electrical cutter and crimper tool for less then 30 dollars, and I will bookmark it!
Cutter and crimper is going to be this one for $25. Not even Klein makes anything on par with these. They don’t strip though. I started our using just these and stripping wire with my teeth. I’ve wired several head units in this way. It’s not worth chipping your teeth though.https://www.channellock.com/909-THE-CRIMPER-Crimping-Tool.aspx If you want an all in one better than your current ones these will work, but I can’t recommend strippers that are on the inside of handles. https://www.channellock.com/959-Wire-Strippers.aspx
And if you want a good set of wire strippers, I would recommend these. https://www.channellock.com/957-Wire-Strippers.aspx
Auto adjusting wire strippers are nice and have their place, but these work %100 of the time.
On Amazon you can get both the strippers and cutter/crimpers for about $30 http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00004SBDI/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1458216610&sr=8-1&pi=SX200_QL40&keywords=909+channel+lock&dpPl=1&dpID=31vt%2BnF78NL&ref=plSrch and http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0002FT6EE/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1458216526&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=957+channel+lock
Or you can get the other tool (not recommended for $18 http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0002FT6EY/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1458216570&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=959+channel+lock
Here’s a somewhat surprising “Do not buy” because of the brand. Knipex Electricians pliers:
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They’re not bad pliers but based on the cost and what these can do, you can find better. The Kleins are a lot bigger but do a lot more. I stlll use these but mostly as pliers.
For about $5 more you can buy the larger Kleins. The Knipex is less electrician and more small electronics tinkerer.
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So I’ve been looking with open eyes and I’ve come across the Felo Ergonic series. They look nice, I really think those handles would be rather awesome however Canada seems to get shafted. I need Robertson/square drive. Philips too because of Americans and such but I really need Robby stuff.
Does anyone have experience with the Ergonic line? I’ve never seen them in store so I think I’m limited to Amazon.ca for ordering them.
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Okay I lied… You can get a #2 square from Home Depot for $13 and assortment of other goodies for a range of prices. Lowe’s online has like 5 things but they’re all stupid expensive.
Is the Ergonic as good as it looks? How do the tips stand up? Is Wera better in that regard? Wera is available locally.
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noops wrote:
10 minutes ago, noops said:So I’ve been looking with open eyes and I’ve come across the Felo Ergonic series. They look nice, I really think those handles would be rather awesome however Canada seems to get shafted. I need Robertson/square drive. Philips too because of Americans and such but I really need Robby stuff.
Does anyone have experience with the Ergonic line? I’ve never seen them in store so I think I’m limited to Amazon.ca for ordering them.
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I love them mine. Rubbery but not sticky grip, and it does compress with added pressure which gives you a better and comfortable grip. I wouldn’t hesitate, they’re my favorite handle on any screwdriver I own or have used. This is the current regular-sized screwdriver sets I have, minus some oddball singles(Craftsman, Harbor Freight, Ace, etc). All are the equivalent for their brand PH2:
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I agree, felo is my favorite. I only have their insulated screwdrivers, but I believe the grip is the same material and shape. The great part is they make insulated drivers in a muted red instead of the obnoxious bright red and yellow.
I have a set of klein journeyman screwdrivers and they seem to be really good so far and I like the bigger size and shape of the normal klein screwdrivers and most of my pliers are channel lock except my wire steippers kleins all the way on those !
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I wish felo had a *Canadian* set. I can’t see why I need 4 stupid flatblades. I hate them. I can’t believe that they were ever used for more than plate screws. I also hate how often they show up in panels. Always slightly stripped or damaged. Allen key might be on the same level too. It might be better in the States but here it’s a 50/50 chance of metric/imperial. Very frustrating. Just pick something. My current favorite is the diamond-wing hybrid. Seems to be far less susceptible to stripping out. Some days it definitely feels like someone didn’t use the right steel tho. Just looking at it and it turns to goo or the head just sheers off.
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noops wrote:
I wish felo had a *Canadian* set. I can’t see why I need 4 stupid flatblades. I hate them. I can’t believe that they were ever used for more than plate screws. I also hate how often they show up in panels. Always slightly stripped or damaged. Allen key might be on the same level too. It might be better in the States but here it’s a 50/50 chance of metric/imperial. Very frustrating. Just pick something. My current favorite is the diamond-wing hybrid. Seems to be far less susceptible to stripping out. Some days it definitely feels like someone didn’t use the right steel tho. Just looking at it and it turns to goo or the head just sheers off.Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
Are you referring to the ECX tip?
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noops wrote:
3 hours ago, noops said:I wish felo had a *Canadian* set. I can’t see why I need 4 stupid flatblades. I hate them. I can’t believe that they were ever used for more than plate screws. I also hate how often they show up in panels. Always slightly stripped or damaged. Allen key might be on the same level too. It might be better in the States but here it’s a 50/50 chance of metric/imperial. Very frustrating. Just pick something. My current favorite is the diamond-wing hybrid. Seems to be far less susceptible to stripping out. Some days it definitely feels like someone didn’t use the right steel tho. Just looking at it and it turns to goo or the head just sheers off.
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I hate hex screws. The real mistake was using the dimensions as the size numbering scheme instead of just an index like phillips or robertson. It means people are just going to add in arbitrary sizes and you need a huge number of driver sizes. I don’t bother switching between metric and imperial because tolerances can be so bad that a driver from the opposite set works better. Just keep a full combined set ordered by size with the sizes mixed together for repair work. Of course slotted is even worse since the factory just grinds whatever groove size they fancy and the bit doesn’t center.
I just wish people would stop making up new drive sizes so I don’t need so many drivers.
jeffmcmillan wrote:
6 hours ago, jeffmcmillan said:I hate hex screws. The real mistake was using the dimensions as the size numbering scheme instead of just an index like phillips or robertson. It means people are just going to add in arbitrary sizes and you need a huge number of driver sizes. I don’t bother switching between metric and imperial because tolerances can be so bad that a driver from the opposite set works better. Just keep a full combined set ordered by size with the sizes mixed together for repair work. Of course slotted is even worse since the factory just grinds whatever groove size they fancy and the bit doesn’t center.
I just wish people would stop making up new drive sizes so I don’t need so many drivers.
A lot of the new drives are great but I wish they’d just adopt one universally. Slotted is crap, phillips is manageable but it still sucks, hex is terrible for the reasons you mentioned. Torx is great for low torque but can get pretty crappy at high torque, Robertson is probably my favorite.
When there’s a brand where I can buy singles at about the same cost as buying a set, I will generally only buy 1 or 2 slotted…but if I can get 2 extra slotted for free or less, I’m buying the set.
KnarlyCarl wrote:
10 hours ago, KnarlyCarl said:
Are you referring to the ECX tip?
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please explain what that tip is for?
I use Kleins for drivers. However, Menards carries Masterforce, of which their drivers are Pratt Reed / Ideal.
The rubber grips on Kleins and Masterforce are the same. I also do like Wera.
I do not have an issue wearing out tips, however, I consider drivers to be a comsumable.
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and tool porn? How’s about these pics? First are my grab drivers, Kleins, Masterforce, C-man, Second pic, is the collection. Obviously, I dont have room for all. There are 5 generations of Channellock, 2 generations of Diamond, Rosco, Wera, Multi tip, a coupla Williams, and some awls thrown in.
(there’s more on another pegboard, btw, and many stored in a toolbox, let alone the ones in the truck, and the carage.)
???????? …..Beautifullllll…..
phffter wrote:
I use Kleins for drivers. However, Menards carries Masterforce, of which their drivers are Pratt Reed / Ideal.The rubber grips on Kleins and Masterforce are the same. I also do like Wera.
I do not have an issue wearing out tips, however, I consider drivers to be a comsumable.
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and tool porn? How’s about these pics? First are my grab drivers, Kleins, Masterforce, C-man, Second pic, is the collection. Obviously, I dont have room for all. There are 5 generations of Channellock, 2 generations of Diamond, Rosco, Wera, Multi tip, a coupla Williams, and some awls thrown in.
(there’s more on another pegboard, btw, and many stored in a toolbox, let alone the ones in the truck, and the carage.)
That’s awesome!!!
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And here’s the ecx bit:
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KnarlyCarl wrote:
Just now, KnarlyCarl said:That’s awesome!!!
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And here’s the ecx bit:
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i’ve seen those. i have used a #2 square on those heads…………… i’ve been doing it wrong for years.
i need to buy more! (i need more pegboard. i need more wall to hang pegboard)
PROTOOLNUT wrote:
17 minutes ago, PROTOOLNUT said:
Got enough screwdrivers? 😛
No. I’m sitting on an order to Epsteins.
That’s a lot of screw drivers! Nice collection
Jimbo
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…looks like someone needs to visit the addiction center.
Fits in perfectly here lol
I just got a PB Swiss screw driver off amazon awhile back only a #2 phillips but its been my go to hand screw driver for some reason. It might not have the best hand feel but it feels solid.