Archived from the Tools In Action forum (Power Tools). This thread is read-only.
What would happen if you tried using a impact driver to drill into cement like a hammer drill? just curious…
with a good bit it should just take longer but it should work…..
Hrmm, Interesting I never though a impact driver would work well in that situation. It’s a different movement than a hammer drill. A hmmer drill is up and down an impact driver is rotational
justin22 wrote:
What would happen if you tried using a impact driver to drill into cement like a hammer drill? just curious…
You’d probably wear out the carbide chisel on the mortar bit prematurely or break it outright. Carbide is only used on the tips of bits because it is brittle but exceedingly hard. If you look at a mortar bit it really is just a little chisel on the tip that’s designed to chip away the concrete from an axial force being applied by the hammer of the drill. Just torquing it, a la impact driver/wrench, and you’re just twisting the chisel and not hammering it in. Also that’s why diamond bits are supposed to just be spun without the hammer action. Abrasion cut vs. chisel out.
I’m no expert on the physics involved but that’s the way I understand it.
but it will work in a pinch…..
I never tried it but if I had a 1/4 hex concrete bit I would try it
That Irwin video is interesting but I would still go with a hammer drill over an impact. For one project or two I suppose it wouldn’t be the end of the world, but on any regular basis you’re better off with a tool better-suited to the task I would think.
Bremon wrote:
That Irwin video is interesting but I would still go with a hammer drill over an impact. For one project or two I suppose it wouldn’t be the end of the world, but on any regular basis you’re better off with a tool better-suited to the task I would think.
I remember seeing someone use a metal bit with a regular corded drill to drill through a poured wall, it took them forever but they did it
Everything depends on what you’re drilling. A carbide bit will go through most masonry without hammering but not well. Then again you can run a spade bit through some brick without hammering. Using an impact driver does have some advantage over a drill but thats only if you press hard enough to cause impacting which is almost impossible with a tapcon bit.
You can paint a house with q-tips but that doesn’t mean I’d want to do it that way 😉 It will surly work in a pinch but as someone who recently had to drill a dozen+ 1/4″ holes in ridiculously hard porcelain tile for a glass shower install where I couldn’t brute force it for fear of cracking the tiles I’m all for drilling things the right way. I used a Milwaukee fuel hammer drill and brand new Bosch masonry bits alternating with a Milwaukee diamond hole bit and it still was borderline torture 😉
JerryNY wrote:
You can paint a house with q-tips but that doesn’t mean I’d want to do it that way 😉 It will surly work in a pinch but as someone who recently had to drill a dozen+ 1/4″ holes in ridiculously hard porcelain tile for a glass shower install where I couldn’t brute force it for fear of cracking the tiles I’m all for drilling things the right way. I used a Milwaukee fuel hammer drill and brand new Bosch masonry bits alternating with a Milwaukee diamond hole bit and it still was borderline torture 😉
I agree….. painting a house with q-tips is not something you would call in a pinch, also the question was “What would happen if you tried using a impact driver to drill into cement like a hammer drill? just curious..” cement generally depending on tensile strength can be drilled far easily than ceramic or porcelain…I have drilled many holes in cement long before I had a hammer drill….is it the best? far from it……but that wasn’t the question.
Irwin tap con set is cool never knew about thx guys
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comp56 wrote:
I agree….. painting a house with q-tips is not something you would call in a pinch, also the question was “What would happen if you tried using a impact driver to drill into cement like a hammer drill? just curious..” cement generally depending on tensile strength can be drilled far easily than ceramic or porcelain…I have drilled many holes in cement long before I had a hammer drill….is it the best? far from it……but that wasn’t the question.
True. I think I’m still grumpy from drilling porcelain 😉
JerryNY wrote:
True. I think I’m still grumpy from drilling porcelain 😉
LOL! I recently had to do that. I know exactly what you are talking about.
I picked up some carbide bits built for tile and glass. I used an aerosol cap to set up a little water container. Then drill, drill, drill, drill, drill, and drill some more. The tip of the bit was starting to round off and it had barely started into the porcelain. I looked at the package and there in the fine print it said “not for porcelain tile”. Another lesson learned the hard way. So after another trip to go pick up a diamond bit I finally got them drilled.
PROTOOLNUT wrote:
Sorry that happened to you C-Haris. Thats how I ruined a 3″ holesaw, apparantly the saw was for wood only, nobody told me. Went to go through 1/8″ steel with it, fucker rounded off, I was pissed, as it was the only 3″ holesaw I had, and still have. So I had to alter my plan. Its like that old saying, use the right tool for the right job. I hear diamond saws and bits can cut through anything.
That sucks the 3″ hole saw probably cost more than the little carbide bit I was using. A big part of the aggravation is all the extra time it takes. Sound like it was a very similar scenario.
so do you think that it would be better for the bit if you held it with pliers so it doesn’t rotate? which would give it more hammering action?
justin22 wrote:
so do you think that it would be better for the bit if you held it with pliers so it doesn’t rotate? which would give it more hammering action?
well no because it is duel action……impact hits horizontally (rotating) and hammer drill hit vertically (up and down) but drill bit still has to spin.
impact….. think of a open end wrench on a nut and you hit the end of the wrench to brake the tightness…..
hammer drill …….same wrench you are trying to loosen but instead of hit the end of the wrench you hit the nut…
I used my Dewalt DCD985 to pre drill all of my Tapcons then hammered them in with my impact driver. I did this because I was also screwing PT 2×4 into the base,met wall to make a half wall to support plumbing and also give me the ability to have wood walls in part of my shop. Anyways, worked slick as snot for me.
Comp, love your new logo dude!comp56 wrote:
well no because it is duel action……impact hits horizontally (rotating) and hammer drill hit vertically (up and down) but drill bit still has to spin.
impact….. think of a open end wrench on a nut and you hit the end of the wrench to brake the tightness…..
hammer drill …….same wrench you are trying to loosen but instead of hit the end of the wrench you hit the nut…
No. If you stop the bit it will do nothing but make a lot of noise.justin22 wrote:
so do you think that it would be better for the bit if you held it with pliers so it doesn’t rotate? which would give it more hammering action?
These are two different tools. They operate in different ways.
The impact action of the impact driver only increases the rotational torque.
The impact action of a hammer drill beats the tip of the bit against the concrete. So that is two motions rotational and forward-back hammering.
The thing they have in common is they rotate like a plain non-hammer drill. The rotation why you can use it to drill in masonry. It will be slower because you don’t have second motion of beating the tip against the concrete like a hammer drill.
justin22 wrote:
What would happen if you tried using a impact driver to drill into cement like a hammer drill? just curious…
I think this question should be spit into two questions.
1. Do impact drivers and hammer drills operate the same way?
Answer: No. Impacts only rotate. Hammer drills rotate and beat the bit into the material.
2. Can you drill into concrete by only rotating the bit? (Impact driver or non-hammer drill)
Answer: Yes. It’s not as fast but it can be done if you have the patience.
Actually the pliers trick might help. The trick with masonry is always just to have impact of some sort. You dont cut concrete. You grind it or you break it. Even though the action of an impact driver is not ideal for drilling concrete it helps quite a bit the same way using a hammer drill strips screws less than a regular drill. Apparently it wasnt clear in my previous post I’ve tested all the methods I mentioned.
jeffmcmillan wrote:
Actually the pliers trick might help. The trick with masonry is always just to have impact of some sort. You dont cut concrete. You grind it or you break it. Even though the action of an impact driver is not ideal for drilling concrete it helps quite a bit the same way using a hammer drill strips screws less than a regular drill. Apparently it wasnt clear in my previous post I’ve tested all the methods I mentioned.
What makes you think a hammer drill strips screws less than a regular drill?
I haven’t seen a cordless drill that can be put in screw clutch mode and hammer mode at the same time.
C Harris wrote:
What makes you think a hammer drill strips screws less than a regular drill?
I haven’t seen a cordless drill that can be put in screw clutch mode and hammer mode at the same time.
Experience.
It’s the Internet man, we’ve all seen all kinds of videos of people doing all kinds of stupid things. TIA had a jobsite fail video of someone demoing a concrete floor they were standing on, and falling through to the basement.Justin Hernandez wrote:
I remember seeing someone use a metal bit with a regular corded drill to drill through a poured wall, it took them forever but they did it
Just because something can be done, doesn’t mean it should be done. I try to work the most ergonomic way possible, and try to give my tools the same consideration. Things last longer when they aren’t put under the potential stress of uses they weren’t intended particular intended for.
As mentioned, an impact makes a poor hammer drill because the impact mechanism and the hammer mechanism are different applications of a similar design. Same reason a hammer drill is a poor mans SDS rotary hammer.
This isn’t to say I haven’t abused tools before. In a pinch it will work, but it’s a temporary solution to hopefully a short term problem. Long term use and common sense dictates getting a better tool for the specific application.
Bremon wrote:
It’s the Internet man, we’ve all seen all kinds of videos of people doing all kinds of stupid things. TIA had a jobsite fail video of someone demoing a concrete floor they were standing on, and falling through to the basement.
Just because something can be done, doesn’t mean it should be done. I try to work the most ergonomic way possible, and try to give my tools the same consideration. Things last longer when they aren’t put under the potential stress of uses they weren’t intended particular intended for.
As mentioned, an impact makes a poor hammer drill because the impact mechanism and the hammer mechanism are different applications of a similar design. Same reason a hammer drill is a poor mans SDS rotary hammer.
This isn’t to say I haven’t abused tools before. In a pinch it will work, but it’s a temporary solution to hopefully a short term problem. Long term use and common sense dictates getting a better tool for the specific application.
Yup I agree on everything you said
That sums it up pretty well.Bremon wrote:
It’s the Internet man, we’ve all seen all kinds of videos of people doing all kinds of stupid things. TIA had a jobsite fail video of someone demoing a concrete floor they were standing on, and falling through to the basement.
Just because something can be done, doesn’t mean it should be done. I try to work the most ergonomic way possible, and try to give my tools the same consideration. Things last longer when they aren’t put under the potential stress of uses they weren’t intended particular intended for.
As mentioned, an impact makes a poor hammer drill because the impact mechanism and the hammer mechanism are different applications of a similar design. Same reason a hammer drill is a poor mans SDS rotary hammer.
This isn’t to say I haven’t abused tools before. In a pinch it will work, but it’s a temporary solution to hopefully a short term problem. Long term use and common sense dictates getting a better tool for the specific application.
I guess a person could just hit the back of the impact driver with a little sledge hammer while it’s turning to get the hammering action.
From my experience a rotary hammer is the way to go. If you don’t drill very often or only drill really small holes a hammer drill will work good. I would only want to use an impact driver as a last resort.
Yeah I was shocked how hard the tile was. It was one of those gray 12×24 gray HD tiles. I was impressed how durable the glaze was. I don’t know how they can sell them for $1.99 ft^2. After some experimentation I found it was best to use the masonry bit to make a hole in the glaze and then switch to the diamond core bit so it wouldn’t be able to walk out.C Harris wrote:
LOL! I recently had to do that. I know exactly what you are talking about.
I picked up some carbide bits built for tile and glass. I used an aerosol cap to set up a little water container. Then drill, drill, drill, drill, drill, and drill some more. The tip of the bit was starting to round off and it had barely started into the porcelain. I looked at the package and there in the fine print it said “not for porcelain tile”. Another lesson learned the hard way. So after another trip to go pick up a diamond bit I finally got them drilled.
if possible drilling into tile is best with diamond bit, cooling and drill press or one of these suction clamps work nice too….