Archived from the Tools In Action forum (Dewalt). This thread is read-only.
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SANYO 3UR18650SAX-BDA
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Is this the same cells as in the nano battery pack? If not I asume that this batterypack can not take up to 2000 cycles.
Dewalt is currently using three different manufactures for their batteries.
DC9260 36v batteries use A123 Nano Phosphate Lithium batteries.
DC9180 XRP batteries use A123 Nano Phosphate Lithium batteries.
DC9181 Compact batteries use Sony Iron Phosphate Lithium batteries.
DCB120 Compact batteries use Sanyo Lithium Metallic Oxide batteries.
I’m not sure where Sanyo rates their batteries in terms of cycle life, like most oxides on the market I would presume 500-800 recharges. Cycle life varies greatly from one user to the next. It all depends on how you take care of your batteries.
I think I take good care of all my cordless Dewalt machines. Store them inside over night because it is freaking cold here in Sweden during winter and When the battery starts to slow down I recaharge them. Sometimes I let the battery to sitt in the charger over night.
I understand if they use cheaper cells in the DCB120 batterypack because the DCF610 driver is actually not a heavyduty drill/driver like the DCD970 that use the DC9180 pack. However, I think the DCF610 is a wonderfull machine as long as you use it for the kind of work it is designed for wich means light work. I use it almost everyday and so far I´m very happy with it. Before I only had a DCD960 and even if it is a very nice and wellbalanced drill it is little to big for the very light kind of work like putting up a outlett and things like that.
It will be interesting to see where the market goes, Sanyo has new ZT batteries coming out. Almost twice the m AH rating over the current SAX series used by Dewalt, and the energy density doubles. All in the same size cell.
Milaukee and Ridgid are already using similar technology in the Red-Lithium and Hyper Lithium cells, only made by Samsung.
Specs from Sanyo.
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Very interesting. Would be nice if they upgrade the batterypack with this kind of cells. But maybee there is a backside we do not know. Guess the cost for the new cell must not be to much higher if they are going for a change. But who does not want a double runtime!
No one’s using a high capacity cell any time soon, even red lithium uses a 1.5 amp hour cell. There are 3.0+ amp hour cells out there, great for laptops and other things that don’t require high current.
That is all based on cell chemistry, as the technology evolve you would see more higher Ah cells
The possibility of upgrading the cells is very cool in my humble opinion! Double run time in the same or similar sized and weighted battery would absolutely ROCK!!! Very happy with my 12v MAX tools- screwdriver, drill and impact driver (plus free light, thank you DeWALT)!!! They are light weight and work very nicely. Keep up the good work- slide pack 12v was genius!
Newbie here and I hope someone can answer a question for me. I notice that all of the 12V li-ion batteries that have been torn apart in the different reviews show (3) 18650 cells. These cells are 3.6V each for a total of 10.8V. How can they claim 12V? The only one that appears to be playing by the rules on this is the Rigid. It has the same 3 cells and claims 10.8.
Thanks,
Bob
Bob, read up on this post http://dewaltownersgroup.com/index.php/topic,619.msg2201.html#msg2201
Post any follow up questions you might have.
Wow. I live in a sales/marketing world and I never heard of this. I guess nobody will drop a dime on the other because they all have the same amount to lose.
Interesting though that Snap-on (my world not yours) does not do this.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/catalog1.asp?tool=all&Cat_ID=121069&Cat_NAME=Power Tools, Cordless&store=snapon-store
See this page if you are interested.
Bob
Snap-On does not compete with the construction world. I doubt they care to follow any trends set over here.
DEWALTDUDE wrote:
It will be interesting to see where the market goes, Sanyo has new ZT batteries coming out. Almost twice the m AH rating over the current SAX series used by Dewalt, and the energy density doubles. All in the same size cell.
Milaukee and Ridgid are already using similar technology in the Red-Lithium and Hyper Lithium cells, only made by Samsung.
Specs from Sanyo.
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I think the maximum is currently A123System utensils,
for discharge current and life cycles
Sanyo UR18650ZT have the C = 2700mAh for a discharge current of 0.54 A
which reduces to about “” “1800mah for discharge current of 5.4 A ” “” “
http://battery.sanyo.com/product/lithum-ion/pdf/01/UR18650ZT.pdf
greetings
is this a ZT battery http://www.amazon.com/Li-ion-Cylindrical-2800mAh-Rechargeable-Battery/dp/B004JPSS1K/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1307460687&sr=8-3-fkmr1 if it is i may grab some and upgrade my pack to see if there is anything gained.
I didn’t see a model #? Hard to say without a model#.
i think this is the model # Model: 30041-0. (on the amazon webpage i clicked “See more technical details” and that’s where i got the model number) i did a quick google and that led me to this page http://cgi.ebay.com/Li-Ion-SANYO-18650-3-7V-2-8Ah-2800mAh-Cell-30041-0-/330522127829#vi-desc and that page has a .pdf with specs for the battery wich is here http://www.all-battery.com/datasheet/30041-0_UR18650ZT.pdf and i noticed is says ZT there. thanks for the tip.
Well this is the specific model 3UR18650SAX-BDA. If it does not say that specifically, then it’s not going to be the same chemical makeup.
Why is there 5 posts?
Does this battery have the protective electronic like the DC9180?
tooljoe wrote:
is this a ZT battery http://www.amazon.com/Li-ion-Cylindrical-2800mAh-Rechargeable-Battery/dp/B004JPSS1K/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1307460687&sr=8-3-fkmr1 if it is i may grab some and upgrade my pack to see if there is anything gained.
It will not be an upgrade unless you want to drill 1/8″ holes for a day. Cant supply high current.
It will not be an upgrade unless you want to drill 1/8″ holes for a day. Cant supply high current.
I see what you are saying… I am new to understanding this technology. I read this the other day…
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and this…
**Abundant variety of models meet wide variety of uses(UR18650 series)
>F: High capacity with steady operating voltage model.
>E: High current model for power applications.
>Y and A: Cost performance and improved standard model by optimization of material.
>L: Cost performance and robust model by optimization of material.
>SA and W: Excellent power model for power tools by optimization of material and structure.
>U: Long storage life and high current model.
>ZT: Neo hybrid positive electrode enables higher charging voltage, which realizes further high capacity model.
so I’m guessing these SAX batteries are already putting 20A draws continuous. Although, now that I think about it, what would those ZT batteries do for the longevity of the flash light that use this batt. Pack? From what I have noticed, my flash light dies faster than my drill… well, I work in dark places and use the flash light mostly continuously… i’m guessing the flashlight does not need high power but more of high capacity batteries.
So what if I upgrade one pack with ZTs for the flashlight and A123 APR18650M1 for the drill?
When deconstructing this battery did anyone check what the five contacts are for?
I am actually going to use these for an outside project, and I am working on my design.
A quick update:
The newer dewalt DCB120 batteries are now 1.5ah and have the same cells (I think?) as the milwaukee red lithium/ridgid hyper (see pics).
You can easily tell the new batteries from the old; the newer batteries have 1.5AH on the side battery labels now and the front of the batter has a yellow background with black dewalt logo.
As for the cells, I couldn’t find info on them but they look identical to the milwaukee red lithium cells except for a slight difference in the model numbers. Milwaukee uses the samsung INR18650-15M while the dewalt uses samsung INR18650-15B.
Either way, I’m extremely satisfied with the dewalt 12 volt max tools I have (flashlight, drill/driver and screwdriver with the impact coming soon). I appreciate that dewalt is using some good cells in their batteries.
Pics:
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Those new batts show 18Wh and the originals are 15.6Wh.
Question: will these cells be making it into 20v batteries soon?? If Milwaukee is getting such a great experience with them, why wouldn’t we put them in ours??
NiteWalker wrote:
A quick update:
The newer dewalt DCB120 batteries are now 1.5ah and have the same cells (I think?) as the milwaukee red lithium/ridgid hyper (see pics).
You can easily tell the new batteries from the old; the newer batteries have 1.5AH on the side battery labels now and the front of the batter has a yellow background with black dewalt logo.
As for the cells, I couldn’t find info on them but they look identical to the milwaukee red lithium cells except for a slight difference in the model numbers. Milwaukee uses the samsung INR18650-15M while the dewalt uses samsung INR18650-15B.
Either way, I’m extremely satisfied with the dewalt 12 volt max tools I have (flashlight, drill/driver and screwdriver with the impact coming soon). I appreciate that dewalt is using some good cells in their batteries.
So in real life terms, will that new battery improve in what? i am newbie to the battery technology. thanks.
And in exchange for what?
From my understanding…
dewalt 12v max dcb120 – sanyo UR18650SAX – 25A max continuous
dewalt 20v max dcb201 (1.5AH) – sanyo UR18650SWX – 20A max continuous
dewalt 20v max dcb200 (3.0AH) – sanyo UR18650SW – 15A max continuous
edit: i am guessing the above amp rating is per cell and of our course the 12v max has less cells than the 20 max 3.0AH.
so I guess I may be answering my own question… in exchange for amp draw? IOW, longer run times while sacrificing torque for higher mAh? Or do I have that backwards?
edit: this guy in amazon says the following “these are actually 1.3ah battery packs.” here… http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DCB120-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Battery/product-reviews/B0043XX8AY/ref=cm_cr_pr_btm_link_2/184-7780749-9435940?ie=UTF8&pageNumber=2&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
been reading about batter tech and i believe i have a better grasp of the technology. i could not find any info about those 15b batteries just this…
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maybe they are new and yet to make it out in the wild. only way to get the info is to ask dewalt for :)..
dewalt also needs to give us 2.0AH like Milwaukee will be given to their 12v fuel line soon…
“The new Milwaukee REDLITHIUMâ„¢ 2.0 batteries provide up to 2X more run-time, 20% more power and 2X more recharges than standard Lithium-Ion batteries.”
http://www.milwaukeetool.com/fuel/press-m12.html
also, looks like bosch is getting in the brushless too and will include 2.0AH batts as well.
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http://www.boschtools.com/core/Pages/boschcore.aspx?WT.ac=BT_Home_Mainbanner2_Core_body
Why is there 5 posts?
this is my guess from what i’ve read…..i believe the charger uses the extra posts to balance the voltage in all cells. from my limited understanding, all cells in a pack need to have a balanced voltage.
my 1.5ah pack has UR18650WX R2111 batteries….
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