Archived from the Tools In Action forum (Power Tools). This thread is read-only.
Many of you have PM’d me about doing a test with the New Dewalt DCD950, and the New Makita BHP454!
I understand that the BHP454 will be replacing the BHP451…or least at your local Home Depot. I’m going to assume the reason the BHP451 no longer has a 3 speed transmission, is because of a patent issue? I will continue to assume that until someone from Makita tells me otherwise.
This test will compare internal specs, demo testing, weight, features and benefits!
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We will start off with WEIGHT:
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As you can see the Makita BHP454 is approx. 5oz lighter than the Dewalt DCD950. The Makita BL1830 Li-ion is approx. 2.5oz lighter than the Dewalt DC9180 Li-ion.
INTERNAL SPECS:
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You can see the DCD950 has a copper heat sink, while the BHP454 has aluminum.
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Both drills have a dual collar design that allows users to keep there clutch setting while switching to drill, screw, and hammerdrill mode.
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Dewalt DCD950 uses the Rohm Supra SK self tightening chuck, the Makita BHP454 uses the Jacobs 500 series ratcheting chuck.
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Makita ARMATURE has a longer design, while the Dewalt ARMATURE uses a larger design.
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Both have well secured magnets, however Dewalts magnet ring is much larger.
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The Dewalt DCD950 gears are secured, while Makita’s BHP454 gears are free floating.
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The Dewalt DCD950 shifting ring is solid metal, the Makita BHP454 Is plastic.
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The Dewalt DCD950 uses a much larger brush than the Makita BHP454.
FEATURES & BENEFITS:
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Makita still features a back cap that can easily be removed for quick brush changes. Even though this is a nice feature, there is one problem with this design, the armature bearing rides inside this back cap. One good drop to the back of this tool and you could ruin the armature, or throw it off balance which would eventually lead to motor failure.
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Makita BHP454 has a 4 pole motor, while the Dewalt DCD950 has a 2 pole. In terms of Torque, 4 pole motors generally create more especially at lower RPM’s than the 2 pole motors. However, 4 pole motors usually have much lower RPM’s than a 2 pole motor. Higher RPM’s are great for Hammer drilling (percussion) on a cordless drill
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The Makita BHP454 features a nice belt clip out of the box. The Dewalt DCD950 does not have a belt clip.
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The Makita BHP454 has two accessory storage clips, the Dewalt DCD950 has one.
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Both the Makita BHP454, and Dewalt DCD950 have front LED lights. The Makita features two LED lights that stay’s on for approx 10 seconds after the trigger is released. The Dewalt has a single LED light turns on and off with the pull of the trigger.
ONTO THE DEMO TEST!
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In this test we used a Douglas fir 2×12. In our previous tests we used White Pine. Pine is much softer than Fir, which allowed us to drill more holes.
This new Makita did very well in our test. It’s pretty amazing that the DeWALT 950 can do more work at a faster pace with less battery capacity. Besides efficiency, I’m guessing the DeWALT is faster because it has more sustained torque and the fact that the nano-phosphate batteries are able to provide more current than the chemistry used by Makita.
The Dewalt DCD950 completed 23 holes.
The Makita BHP454 completed 21 holes.
Nice Review !!!
Was there any difference in the quality of the cut between the two drills? Since the DeWALT 950 cut faster, I was just curious if by chance it also cut cleaner or if there was any difference at all. Both tools performed very well. I sure wish the 950 had provisions for an optional belt hook, but I’m glad to see the LED on the 950. The 950 appears to be a “Super Duty” tool.
I realize the feel of a tool is highly personal, but did one tool feel much better in your hands than the other or was there little difference to you?
qadsan wrote:
Nice Review !!!
Was there any difference in the quality of the cut between the two drills? Since the DeWALT 950 cut faster, I was just curious if by chance it also cut cleaner or if there was any difference at all. Both tools performed very well. I sure wish the 950 had provisions for an optional belt hook, but I’m glad to see the LED on the 950. The 950 appears to be a “Super Duty” tool.
I realize the feel of a tool is highly personal, but did one tool feel much better in your hands than the other or was there little difference to you?
There is a unique feel to the Makita. Both are well balanced, but being 7oz lighter, and a thinner grip the Makita feels better.
Just a note, while i don’t really have preference between these two drills, I did notice that on the video, the second set of hole’s with the makita the tester was also drilling though the bottom board. take a look. Thanks again for the review great info.
Welcome to the forum BTR, and thanks for your post. However, the tester was myself. I did not drill through the second board. The camera angle is deceiving, the 2 9/16 self feed bit would not push through the board 1 1/2″ in if it were drilling through the bottom board. Have another look.
Copper is only a better remover of heat as a heatsink when there is a large amount of airflow over the heatsink itself.
-If Air flow speeds are very high (over 800 linear feet per minute).
The larger magnet core in the Dewalt is only that size due to the large bore of the armature itself.
The Makita magnet ring is more slender due to the longer shape of the armature. The Makita also uses a rare earth magnet instead of ferrite magnets. Rare earth magnets provide the highest magnetic energy to accommodate in small shapes and sizes with greater performance.
The longer shape of the Makita armature provides a tool that is lighter weight and better balanced.
“The Dewalt DCD950 shifting ring is solid metal, the Makita BHP454 Is plastic.”
The Makita gear itself is metal and has many more teeth than the Dewalt. The Dewalt gear has only six teeth to rely on. The likely hood of failure in the Dewalt gear is much more likely based on the gear teeth.
What gear speed was chosen for the test that was conducted?
Welcome to the forum Toonut! Thanks for your interest in the post. You raise valid points, but all allow me to reiterate on what was previously posted a little better.
toolnut wrote:
Copper is only a better remover of heat as a heatsink when there is a large amount of airflow over the heatsink itself.
-If Air flow speeds are very high (over 800 linear feet per minute).
Copper is a better conductor, and it will displace heat more evenly. Airflow is a huge factor. However, the Makita chose to mount there aluminum heat sink next to the magnet ring. The magnet ring generates a lot of heat, especially under heavy loads. Blowing all that hot air onto the heat sink is counterproductive! With that said, It could be argued that both setups are similarly effective. Aluminum is cheaper and lighter than copper, which was just one more cost cutter Makita chose to make.
The larger magnet core in the Dewalt is only that size due to the large bore of the armature itself.The Makita magnet ring is more slender due to the longer shape of the armature. The Makita also uses a rare earth magnet instead of ferrite magnets. Rare earth magnets provide the highest magnetic energy to accommodate in small shapes and sizes with greater performance.
I simply don’t have enough information on Dewalts new “patent pending flat magnet design” to raise any arguments. I’ve never seen a magnet ring quite like the DCD950’s. I’ll let someone else argue that. Or you could let the video argue it?
The Makita gear itself is metal and has many more teeth than the Dewalt. The Dewalt gear has only six teeth to rely on. The likely hood of failure in the Dewalt gear is much more likely based on the gear teeth.
I never posted anything regarding the metal gear inside the plastic shifting ring. Let’s face it, if there is going to be major transmission failure, it’s going to be within the gears themselves. Dewalt’s gear box dissipates heat much better than Makitas, and the gears themselves are actually secured…back to the shifting ring. The Makita’s plastic shifting ring connects to the selector lever via another tiny piece of plastic that is supported by two small springs. That’s going to be your first point of failure. Again, another cost cut by Makita.
What gear speed was chosen for the test that was conducted?
The test was done in first gear. Find me a 18v cordless drill that can push a 2 9/16″ self feed bit through Fir in any gear but 1st, and I’ll buy it!
One side note, if the Makita’s slender design, and rare earth magnets are so powerful….then couple that with a 4 pole motor. Why then, did the Makita take longer, struggle harder, and drill less holes than the DCD950?
I was under the impression there was a non-biased test here. When you leave out facts that leads one to believe that maybe your trying to sway the opinion of the reader.
Not biased, just posting facts. Sorry you disagree!
I don’t see your evaluations of the internals as fact at all. Copper is only a better conductor when air flow is present. Rare earth magnets are better conductors of electricity than ferrite magnets.
A few things I found to be left out of your commentary.
So your saying I staged the video, and doctored the photo’s?
You said it, not me. I would say there are many conditions that create a good tool overall. Tools are used in many different environments and conditions day to day. So, I would say your video tells part of the story.
Sorry to come across harsh, but I’m just posting pictures and videos as real as it comes. Your right, this is not the whole picture. Each user is going to use there tool as they see fit. Some will take care of there tool, while others manage to destroy it. I am just showing a potential user a small glimpse of what they are buying. Last I looked no one else online was spending there personal capital for others to benefit from!?
It’s ok to disagree with me. Nothing else is better than a good debate. If you plan on fligging mud, plan on getting some back!
Another point to mention are the spindle differences. I’m guessing the Makita BHP454 has a conventional drilled spindle with a reverse threaded keeper screw securing the chuck where as the DCD950 has a ‘solid’ spindle (non-drilled). The solid (non-drilled) spindle with the super tough Rohm chuck was one of the features that sold me on DeWALT’s newer hammer drills. A solid spindle should be stronger and tougher than a drilled spindle.
Admin,
Thanks for the review/video. And I’d be happy to buy the Makita from you if you choose not to keep it (just kidding). I just bought the new Bosch combo w/ the hammer drill. Any chance you could borrow a new Bosch hammer drill and repeat the comparison w/ the other two? I’ll never drill that many holes in a row, but it would be nice to see how well the Bosch compares to the others.
I have two Makita lithium tools (compact 18v drill and impact) but I was just not that enthused by the BHP451 or 454. I bought the compacts to use in my wood shop and they fit the bill nicely for woodworking. I have a deck project coming up this summer so I bought the Bosch combo instead. They just seem like they’ll hold up better with abuse. I’ve never been a Dewalt cordless type and have favored Bosch since I own many of their woodworking tools.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my Makitas, but the hammer drill never excited me that much with the lower torque ratings than most in that category.
Ern
Erngum wrote:
…Any chance you could borrow a new Bosch hammer drill and repeat the comparison w/ the other two?…
Have you seen this post yet? It compares the Bosch hammer drill to a few others and there’s video of the Bosh as well. Here’s the link…
it’s actually the drill/driver model only.
I know we are talking about the dcd950 here but I thought it would be good for me to mention that the dc925 also out performs the makita bhp454. I own both the dc925 and the makita bhp454. I like my Makita drill but would have to say that even the older dc925 performs better. Especially when hammer drilling. I was drilling some 1/2 inch holes to install some red heads and man the dc925 drilled them like a hot knife thru butter. It was awesome to see how quickly it drilled. The Makita on the other hand did well, but drilled the holes a lot slower. I know the Makita is rated at 560lbs of torque, if either the dc925 or dcd950 were still using torque ratings, I think it would be safe to say that the Dewalts would be in the 600lb and above class. Maybe around 630lbs of torque. Don’t get me wrong, I love Makitas stuff, but hands down the Dewalt drills are a cut above. 🙂
USMCDevildog73 wrote:
…..I like my Makita drill but would have to say that even the older dc925 performs better. Especially when hammer drilling. I was drilling some 1/2 inch holes to install some red heads and man the dc925 drilled them like a hot knife thru butter. It was awesome to see how quickly it drilled. The Makita on the other hand did well, but drilled the holes a lot slower. I know the Makita is rated at 560lbs of torque, if either the dc925 or dcd950 were still using torque ratings, I think it would be safe to say that the Dewalts would be in the 600lb and above class. Maybe around 630lbs of torque. Don’t get me wrong, I love Makitas stuff, but hands down the Dewalt drills are a cut above. 🙂
The difference in 3rd (no load max RPM’s) gear between the Dewalt DC925 and the Makita BHP454, is 300 RPM’s.(Makita 0-1700, Dewalt 0-2000) The difference in 3rd gear BPM is 11,500. (Makita 0-22,500, Dewalt 0-34,000) I’ve done many tests in hammerdrill mode between a handful of popular brand drills. The DC925 in hammerdill mode has outperformed all but one. That drill happened to be the new Hilti SFH 18-A CPC. It’s actually a 21.6v drill. Why they chose to call it an 18v+ is a mystery to me??… Anywho, you may be surprised to know that the DC925 only has 500 in lbs of maximum torque. Torque is another topic all on it’s own! Just remember that torque is only one side of the cube.
WOW!!! Thanks for letting me know about that. Would the the dcd950 be about the same as the the dc925 in terms of torque?
Dewalt rated the DCD950 at 450 UWO. The DC925 is 480. I have not seen any torque specs out there for the DCD950. If Dewalt jumps on board with PTI , then you might start seeing public torque specs for Dewalt drills.
Application speed is going to be the same in 3rd gear. 3rd gear is really just for putting in fastners, so I don’t see any torque related issues there. The DCD950’s second gear has been turned down to 1,250 RPM’s. Which means you can now complete tougher drilling tasks that you may have attempted only in 1st gear with the DC925. The DCD950’s 1st gear was kicked up to 500 RPM’s, so running 2 9/16″ self feed bits are much faster. Even though the DCD950 has a lower UWO rating, I still feel like the DCD950 struggled less durning my testing than the DC925.
anyway you can perform a test on how the dc925 stacks up against the bhp454on the same fir wood with the same bit?
I have no plans of doing any more tests against older products. People are really only interested in new products.
do you have video on the dc925 vs dcd950?
I don’t have a video, but if I get around to it, I’ll make one.
sweet
I just noticed this, but how come there are gouges in the Makitas armature?
Just a guess, but it could be for balancing?
Real good review !
That Dewalt DC950 looks like a nice piece of equipment.
.
What is fastners? Is that screws to fix gipsy for example? Why I ask is because you say 3 gear is only for fastners.
However, I just bought a DCD920 ( in europe they call DCD 950 for DCD 925 and mine is the one without hammer mode, so thats why it is called DCD 920.) Do not know what the DCD 950 without hammer mode is called in the states.
Any way, I had to do some test So I took a “flatbore” by the name Irwin bluegrove 4x. Size 20 mm. In the 3 gear I coluld bore 83 holes through 5.5 centimeters wood. Think you call it for 2″ in the states. The extra 0.5 mm was because it was not “sanded” or what you call it. Rough surface still on it.
On the second gear I was able to bore 90 holes so the difference was only 7 holes. However, it was much nicer to bore in the higher speed in 3 gear and each hole was quicker done. So with “flatbore” I think 3 gear is very nice.
Have you tried the blue bore TSF? I´m thinking about to buy and test them. I´m working as a electrician and wenn working with installations in new build houses I do a lot of holes in 70 mm for outlets and light switches. The material is often one layer of gipsy and one layer of “plyboard or chipboard.
Up tp present day I´ve only used a special kind of hole saw only made to bore in wood and gypsy, not metal. It is much thinner compared to a holesaw that you can bore in metal with. How ever, I think traditional holesaw made for cutting in metal is very bad to cut in wood becasuse they get very warm.
But the new blue bore TSF seems very interesting. Very quick and also able to cut in a lot of different materials.
http://www.amazon.com/TSF12-Self-Feed-Hole-outperforms-self-feed/dp/B002JQ12GE
Or do you have some good tip for me what to use wenn making holes up to 80 mm in chipboard and plyboard?
I just saw that a DCD 920 is the 14.4 volt in the states and the DCD 940 is the 18 volt model. The ones without hammer mode. Strange that dewalt use DCD920 in europe for the 18 volt model and DCD 930 for the 14.4 volt model.
could the reason why the dewalt did better than the makita be because the dewalt has a 3 speed?
the makita only has a two speed while the dewalt has a three speed, giving you a faster top gear, and a slower first gear.
I think the reason why makita went away with the 3 speed bhp451 was because the transmission was prone to failure due to the plastic shifter ring…hammerdrilling in 3rd gear would put a lot of stress on the ring, so they simply ditched the 3 speed and gave it a two speed…which sucks because I want a heavy duty 3 speed to go with my set of makita cordless tools. >:(
Dewalt is 0-500 RPM’s in 1st gear, 0-1250 in 2nd, and 0-2000 in 3rd. While Makita is 0-400 RPM’s in 1st gear, and 0-1700 in 2nd gear. So in this test that does not apply to your question. Makita did away with the 3 speed because it is a Dewalt patent. Hence the reason why you do not see 3 speed transmissions on any other brand, with the exception of Hilti.
JC wrote:
Dewalt is 0-500 RPM’s in 1st gear, 0-1250 in 2nd, and 0-2000 in 3rd. While Makita is 0-400 RPM’s in 1st gear, and 0-1700 in 2nd gear. So in this test that does not apply to your question. Makita did away with the 3 speed because it is a Dewalt patent. Hence the reason why you do not see 3 speed transmissions on any other brand, with the exception of Hilti.
Are you talking about only in a hammer drill? Makita still makes the BDF451 that has a 3 speed transmission, but it’s just a drill driver.
KDamericano wrote:
Dewalt is 0-500 RPM’s in 1st gear, 0-1250 in 2nd, and 0-2000 in 3rd. While Makita is 0-400 RPM’s in 1st gear, and 0-1700 in 2nd gear. So in this test that does not apply to your question. Makita did away with the 3 speed because it is a Dewalt patent. Hence the reason why you do not see 3 speed transmissions on any other brand, with the exception of Hilti.
Are you talking about only in a hammer drill? Makita still makes the BDF451 that has a 3 speed transmission, but it’s just a drill driver.
That is true but the 451 have 300 rpm in first gear and 600 rpm in second gear so in my opinion that gearbox is just a joke. 300 rpm is to slow for anything practical and the extra 300 rpm in second gear is to less to make a sense. And the 1700 rpm is also not as good as 2000 rpm for smaller spadebits. Do not understand how makitas engineers where thinking wenn they engineered the 451 drill.
JC wrote:
…If Dewalt jumps on board with PTI , then you might start seeing public torque specs for Dewalt drills…
When Dewalt came out with their own UWO standard, they should have kept the industry standard of in/lbs torque too. But when they totally drop the in/lbs for the UWO rating, no one has a clue on how they measure up to the competition.
For example (how can you compare these?);
Drill A is 500 in/lbs
Drill B is 450 in/lbs
Drill C is 525 in/lbs
Drill D is 480 in/lbs
Drill E is 380 UWO
Even comparing Drills A through D, you don’t really have a clue how they compare in the real world. UWO is a little better because it measures power. Torque alone is not an indicator of power.
My mistake if I posted this in the wrong area….
Also, two of the many good HD out there, the 950 and the 454 are two I was looking at. Your test shows me that they are both good. If tests show that that was a 50% diff or more, that would be a concern. Being that they are both capable, then other criteria such as weight and feel, features like LED’s, belt clips, other tools offered with the same batteris..etc, also make a diff. The battery technolgy is also important, hence my concern about how good the XRP nicads are. Last, this kit has the 951, that I saw on Dewalt’s site is almost like the 950…how close or different is it?
Thanks
You can get the DCD970 Cheaper than the DCD950 right now at Home Depot. The DCD970 comes with 2 Lithium batteries. If NiCd was your hick-up, now you don’t have to worry about the price difference.
Just wanted to say that I just bought a new DCD970. 🙂
What are your thoughts on your new purchase?
Great review! I don’t think I’ve seen a tool completely disassembled like that. The wite up was excellent too.
Just got a Makita 454 as a gift, thought I’d try it out against my 970 under actual work conditions and have not compared spec’s beforehand. It’s been a week and impressions overall IMO I slightly prefer the Makita over the Dewalt, simply for balance,feel,weight and chuck. but I do feel the Dewalt has slightly more torque and spins faster. Nonetheless both great drills.
I did enjoy the ergomoics, balance, and soft rubber grip on the 454 as well. I didn’t care much for the chuck. What do you like more about the jacobs chuck, vs the Rohm?
The Rohm, although more robust, masonry bits would work loose on a few occasions, The hand tightning distance on the Jacobs is a tad farther than on the Rohm,dunno if that’s the reason. Also looking at your drill with batt weight spec’s, I was kinda shocked that the 970 was only 7oz’s heavier, The 454 feels considerably lighter in the hand,guess due to tool balance. In the end, they are both great drills, not one better than the other,just different.
I’ve had the Makita BHP 451 and the Dewalt DC725 (compact hammer drill). The Dewalt outperforms the Makita. Against manufacturer’s recommendations I routinely use 7/8″ and 1″ ship augers in my cordless drills. Even my old Dewalt 925 with a 1″ ship auger drilled through a double top plate where my newer Makita couldn’t. The 725 does it as well. The cordless Makitas are gone and the Dewalts are still working away.
never buy makita drill they transmission suck if you look the picture of both dewalt is the biggest winner all makita transmission broke after few use you will lose 3 speed and the 2 speed after few use.I got alot of expemple of broken gear 2 and 3 on makita.The best to show you how they makita suck is i was workin last year whit some who buy the makita kit whit drill and impact i was suprise the drill was not in the case so i ask im why he saay i was trying to put a small screw and boom drill transmission broken the drill was dead.Other exple at school we got five makita drill 3 of them the 2 and 3 speed was brokken only the first speed work.so mconclusion makita drill durability worst on market.
he was lucky to finish the the befor makita drill die
I would like to know which 18v drill from Dewalt is the most powerful. I ask because here in Jamaica, we got mainly concrete walls. Some are prefabricated and extremely tough. Or is the 36v much stronger than the 18v in terms of hammering. And can 20v batteries work in the 18v drills?
If you are drilling through concrete only, a hammerdrill would not be a recommendation. I would choose a dedicated Rotary Hammer. Dewalt Makes an 18v DC212KA Rotary Hammer. They also have a 20v Max version, 24v version, and a 36v version.
Currently the DC925 is Dewalt’s most powerful 18v Drill/hammerdrill combo at 510 (480) UWO. The new 20v max will be the most powerful once it’s launched, at 535 UWO.
[glow=red,2,300]Hilti TE 7-A[/glow]Dimensions (LxWxH) 401 x 111 x 217 mm
Rated input 720 W
Voltage 36 V 3.9-Ah
Weight according EPTA-Procedure 01/2003 4.9 kg
Width 111 mm
Depth Gauge Yes
Triaxial vibration value for hammer drilling into concrete (ah,HD) 11 m/s²
Optimum drilling diameter in concrete 5 mm – 20 mm
Battery Type Li-Ion
Single Impact Energy – setting I 2.6 J
Triaxial vibration for chiseling in concrete 9 m/s²
Hammering Speed Under Load – Setting I 4000 impacts/minute
Maximum drilling diameter range for hammer drill bits – range 5 mm – 24 mm
Chuck Style TE-C
Speed 1 No Load 740 rpm
Drilling Modes Hammer drilling Drilling Chiseling Chisel setting
Reverse Switch Yes
Number of Gears 1
Dewalt
Voltage 36V 2.2Ah
Concrete Optimum 5/32 – 5/8″
Impact Energy 1.9ft-lbs
Vibration Measurement 8.5 m/s2
No Load Speed 0-1,150rpm
Beats/Min 0-4,400bpm
Chipping Yes
Vibration Control Yes
Tool Length 10.5″
Tool Weight 12.4lbs
Hilti more power 2.6 J Dewalt only 1.9 j
More Ah 3.9 hilti vs 2.2 dewalt
So more ah = More hole or time for Chisel.