Archived from the Tools In Action forum (Milwaukee). This thread is read-only.
If you could pick one favorite and ONLY one favorite new product/new product line at NPS17 what would it be and why? Please only choose one.
I would have to choose the m12 stapler. I like how small it is, the price is reasonable, and the fact you don’t have to deal with air hoses is nice.
PackOut, unless the price is as brutal as it looks to be, in which case it’s really difficult to decide but likely the M18 Fuel Hackzall.
Packout for sure. Very creative, well thought out design. A little bummed all my current job site organizers wont integrate, but a good excuse to get something new.
Agree, packout. Very cool storage options. Just wish they had some with drawers
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M12 stapler……packout is avg at best…
Framer joe wrote:
16 minutes ago, Framer joe said:M12 stapler……packout is avg at best…
What does that make TStak, LBoxx, ToughSystem and Systainers in that case? Flaming heaps of mediocrity? ?
Sustainers are great….Tstack is awesome for what it is ….tough system was innovative,rugged jobsite storage…..packout is late to the party and what new innovation did they bring ????? Except a bag can lock on top of a storage box….you still can’t access tools on the bottom without removing boxes,they have no drawer units……..oh they did prove a CINDER block can ruin a ds130 basic box,, obviously they didn’t have much damage to a ds150 or they would have used that one……
Love tstack in my truck….
Systainers are expensive as hell and weak. TStak are knockoff Systainers. LBoxx is as flimsy as either. ToughSystem is my favorite, but has just as many misses as hits.
-Why aren’t the removable lid storage of the DS150 compatible with the 3000/400/450?
-Why aren’t the vertical storage rack of the DS400 more easily integrated into the 300? I realize the slots are there but I destroyed a DS300 by HAND putting one in, “guaranteed tough” my ass.
-Why do the drawer units flex with other boxes placed on top of them?
-Why aren’t the drawer units IP67? Add a gasket and some latches on the sides of the boxes?
-Why is quality control so poor that basically all the pressure relief valves are useless because you can force air in and out of the box by pressing on the lid of the box?
-Why are the box interlocking clips crappy plastic latches?
What does PackOut do right?
-Multiple footprints from small parts boxes to Systainer size to ToughSystem size.
-Bag compatibility (but that doesn’t count, right?).
-The one-touch latch/lock system that mimics the simplicity of Systainers.
-Potentially an IP67 rating that’s worth a damn, depending on the gasket.
-Nice looking tie-down points.
-The promise of a ton of new layouts, likely including drawers. It’s not like ToughSystem launched with the DS100, DS130, DS450, racking system, etc.
What Milwaukee is doing wrong is potentially weight (we’ll see), potentially price, burning everyone who bought their existing organizers, and worst in my eyes in the giant red colorscheme that screams “buy me!” at Home Depot but screams “steal me!” on site. Oh, but they have Ticks to sell you for that ??.
Pack out for sure. I was really hoping they’d do a system. I can’t wait to check one out. I’ve been thinking about building a box for my cordless, but I’ll delay it even a little longer until I can see them.
Other then that Milwaukee let me down. The fuel hackzall is nice, and don’t get me wrong cordless heat gun and soldering iron are quite cool to see. The lights are good too, but nothing really blew me away. Dewalt really set the bar high last year. I understand Milwaukee has found their niche market in plumbers and electricians, but I would love for them to expand their horizons personally. Please tell me I’m not the only one who thinks this haha
Well their core trades for decades have been electrical, plumbing and mechanical so…I’d say they have been expanding. If you do drywall or automotive work then they’ve come a long way towards appealing to you. If you’re a carpenter of any sort then odds are there’s less to be excited about but they’re attempting to appeal to the trim guys, and with another iteration of nailers and the new 7.25″ they’d be doing better. I think people might be expecting too much too soon from Team Red with regards to full size carpentry stuff right now… 18v 18650 cells just won’t make that work the way it needs to. Next year with 21700 and X2 platform chasing Dewalt’s and Makita’s lead we might be pleasantly surprised but with regards to woodworking currently I would say Milwaukee is trying and failing.
The flashlights and storage. The tools were pretty meh. Nothing that would make me switch back, for sure.
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The packout tote with a part bin container that attaches underneath…brilliant! That KILLS all the bags with the cheap organizer and a dedicated pocket for that container.
I’d have a hard time not getting the 3/8″ or 1/2″ ratchet.
The gen2 m12 Fuel drill would probably be on here if it still had the mode select collar, without that, it’s not on my regular list.
The M12 FUEL ratchets. I have the 3/8″ previous generation and it’s great but I want all three of the new ones. I’m using more 1/2″ drive sockets recently and the high torque impact wrench I have is overkill for a lot of things (and heavy and large as hell).
The M18 heat gun and M12 soldering iron share second place. 7-1/4″ miter saw and One-Key high torque are third.
Not excited about PackOut because inital prices being thrown around are ridiculous. The rolling box is priced at $130 from what I’ve heard which is over twice the current cost of the ToughSystem rolling box. If that price changes I might consider it because it does look nice and I like the little storage boxes.
Bremon wrote:
2 hours ago, Bremon said:Next year with 21700 and X2 platform chasing Dewalt’s and Makita’s lead we might be pleasantly surprised but with regards to woodworking currently I would say Milwaukee is trying and failing.
I got the impression that the switch to 21700 cells are Milwaukee’s answer to x2 and flexvolt. I would be surprised if they went to an x2 setup. Supposedly they foresee that it will last them at least 10 years. I doubt they will last that long.
How does a battery that has roughly 10% more energy than what the competitors will be using at that time offset the competition having 33%-100% more battery cells. That’s ignoring the potential advances 20700 could make in amp hours over 21700 with more time on the market. That leaves Milwaukee, in a year or two, in the same spot they’re currently in with regards to their competition; less power, less runtime, and a ceiling for potential that’s much lower.
See your point @Bremon about tough box..but..it also does have small part boxes,that lock on top.. it is waterproof…the small yellow tabs are cheap but I’ve never had one break…..sagging drawers and not waterproof yup…….
……….Tstack is awesome,not meant for jobsites…neither is L box or Systainer….they are shop boxes..and are superior..
What I’m saying is Milwaukee had years to develop a storage system with the advantage of seeing the competition….and what is so great ?
….. a button to push on the front ?
…,,click in place ,instead of a tab?
….future boxes coming ?
—bags that click on top ?
Dewalt has bags and totes too (non locking)…for TWICE the money it should be Futuristic, Revolutionary…it is nice ,looks sturdy, waterproof I’m glad Milwaukee guys have a storage system finally……..I didn’t see a Milwaukee box dropped ,is going to crack ?? Tough boxes can take a beating you know that,THEY ARE NOT PERFECT…But for the money they are great….with lots of room for improvement..
TStak LBoxx and Systainer are all site boxes aimed at finishing guys as much as they are shop boxes. To say otherwise flies in the face of marketing material by all 3 companies. You even show a stack of drawer units that don’t look like they’re in your shop lol. Your criticism of the PackOut system is irrational; the things you list as “no big deal” are the exact features that make every other system advantageous, and your only criticism that isn’t baseless is price. What is Systainer beyond a flimsy plastic box that costs a lot of money and interlocks with one touch? ToughSystem has an organizer that is the same footprint as everything else: huge. Milwaukee’s sizes are far more customizable. “Dewalt has bags that don’t interlock”; so does every other manufacturer, but they aren’t part of a modular system so those bags and the bungees you use to tie them to your boxes don’t really have a place in this conversation. ToughSystem is great “for the price, with lots of room for improvement”; PackOut is that improvement, unfortunately it looks like you’re going to have to pay a premium for that improvement.
Framer joe wrote:
See your point [mention=49609]Bremon[/mention] about tough box..but..it also does have small part boxes,that lock on top.. it is waterproof…the small yellow tabs are cheap but I’ve never had one break…..sagging drawers and not waterproof yup…….
……….Tstack is awesome,not meant for jobsites…neither is L box or Systainer….they are shop boxes..and are superior..
What I’m saying is Milwaukee had years to develop a storage system with the advantage of seeing the competition….and what is so great ?
….. a button to push on the front ?
…,,click in place ,instead of a tab?
….future boxes coming ?
—bags that click on top ?
Dewalt has bags and totes too (non locking)…for TWICE the money it should be Futuristic, Revolutionary…it is nice ,looks sturdy, waterproof I’m glad Milwaukee guys have a storage system finally……..I didn’t see a Milwaukee box dropped ,is going to crack ?? Tough boxes can take a beating you know that,THEY ARE NOT PERFECT…But for the money they are great….with lots of room for improvement..
I agree with what you say and I’ve never broke a tough box but one thing I don’t think is great about the new pack out boxes are the steel tubing on the corners they look like they may really dent in if the box falls and lands wrong on the corner ? Not saying they will break but apart from that I think they look good boxes
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Someone drank a lot of Milwaukee koolaid if you think those storage boxes are superior……Systainer just a flimsy plastic box ? Wow..that system is probably the best storage system there is for shop or trim guys.(although never seen any on a jobsite)….I think they even have a vacuum in one and a compressor?
But anyway….I’m very happy companies are expanding and growing cordless tool solutions and storage…..I think I saw an m12 FUEL beat the 18v subcompact Makita….exciting times..!! M12 is unbelievable….
Craigh9916 wrote:
46 minutes ago, Craigh9916 said:
I agree with what you say and I’ve never broke a tough box but one thing I don’t think is great about the new pack out boxes are the steel tubing on the corners they look like they may really dent in if the box falls and lands wrong on the corner ? Not saying they will break but apart from that I think they look good boxes
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Dent vs a crack in the ToughSystem. I know which one I’d prefer.
@Framer joe Milwaukee koolaid? Lmao. Have you read my posts here over the past year? It’s ok for yellow to not be the best at everything, don’t worry. FlexVolt still has “more powa”. Do you own any Systainers, or do you just see the price tag and the brands that put tools in them? I own Systainers; they are flimsy plastic boxes. There’s a reason they are “shop boxes”, and I have seen them on site: used by finishing guys. A framer like you and the crews you describe would obliterate them the first week.
I have a systainer, and that isn’t going anywhere near a house during rough in stage, but that’s not what it’s meant for. Neither is this packout meant for finish work. My Ridgid boxes are great for rough in stage but would be cumbersome in the finish stage. They are apples and oranges, aimed at totally different applications. I really like having the ability to pop a organizer on the bottom of a bag and take that in with me for service, or remove it if I only need to bring my tools. I’m not aware of any other system like that. The ability to then take that organizer (half width at that) and stack on my other boxes is awesome.
For example…
If I’m rebuilding a faucet, take in my tool bag with the organizer(rebuild pieces) and I have everything. If I’m installing a faucet, I would bring in my bag on a larger box (with supplies) and leave the organizer behind. Pick and choose and mix and match, full width or multiple half width.
I have the DeWalt cart with the arms to hold the boxes, and that cart is very wide, it’s ridiculous. The only advantage is not pulling the boxes off the top of the one you want to get at, but I don’t like them enough over all.
Honestly I can see myself just getting the organizers, and not the tool boxes, but I really want to see them in person somewhere.
Did you hear also, they have a ton of new boxes coming, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Haven’t you heard @KnarlyCarl? All that matters is that PackOut isn’t more diverse than ToughSystem right this minute (even though at launch it will likely be more diverse). A year from now, it won’t matter that it could have far more options than ToughSystem, TStak, Systainer, or LBoxx because everyone who needs a storage system will already have one, no future tools will be sold and no children will be born. Late to market, missed the whole damn boat ?.
Bremon wrote:
Dent vs a crack in the ToughSystem. I know which one I’d prefer.
[mention=55531]Framer joe[/mention] Milwaukee koolaid? Lmao. Have you read my posts here over the past year? It’s ok for yellow to not be the best at everything, don’t worry. FlexVolt still has “more powa”. Do you own any Systainers, or do you just see the price tag and the brands that put tools in them? I own Systainers; they are flimsy plastic boxes. There’s a reason they are “shop boxes”, and I have seen them on site: used by finishing guys. A framer like you and the crews you describe would obliterate them the first week.
I haven’t cracked a tough box yet and not saying they won’t crack but in Milwaukee’s test they used the thinner ds130 box to drop the block on , why would they use the thinnest one and not a ds150 onwards as they are thicker and stronger !
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Craigh9916 wrote:
7 minutes ago, Craigh9916 said:
I haven’t cracked a tough box yet and not saying they won’t crack but in Milwaukee’s test they used the thinner ds130 box to drop the block on , why would they use the thinnest one and not a ds150 onwards as they are thicker and stronger !
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Trust me, that did not go unnoticed by many, myself included. I played devil’s advocate with every new tool they showed there, and took that comparison for a grain of salt. I thought a little less of them for doing that honestly, that’s not a fair comparison and we know that.
I’ve cracked ToughSystem boxes, and own at least 15 of them. Obviously the DS130 and DS100 are weakest, but the others would certainly take damage from a 25+lb cinder block. Milwaukee’s demonstrations are consistently among the most disingenuous tests I’ve seen in the tool industry. They regularly show their newest off against widely available mid-tier models rather than the competitions latest and greatest.
I’m not calling the ToughSystem crappy, I’m saying it’s obvious the PackOut system has significant advantages. Where it’s pricing fits in the market remains to be seen, but there’s no denying it incorporates every advantage every competing system on the market has and minimizes their downsides. If it didn’t it would be a poor excuse to be late to the party. To downplay its one-touch latch basically calls out Systainers only advantage as superfluous. It’s built at least as ruggedly as the most durable system currently out there, of which I have hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth. To top it off, with its multiple footprints it can integrate the finishing work friendliness of TStak and Systainer with the rough-in ready build quality of the ToughSystem in a single system. To call that mediocre or lacking innovation is to drink so much “koolaid” that you’re intoxicated and need a cab.
Bremon wrote:
I’ve cracked ToughSystem boxes, and own at least 15 of them. Obviously the DS130 and DS100 are weakest, but the others would certainly take damage from a 25+lb cinder block. Milwaukee’s demonstrations are consistently among the most disingenuous tests I’ve seen in the tool industry. They regularly show their newest off against widely available mid-tier models rather than the competitions latest and greatest.
I’m not calling the ToughSystem crappy, I’m saying it’s obvious the PackOut system has significant advantages. Where it’s pricing fits in the market remains to be seen, but there’s no denying it incorporates every advantage every competing system on the market has and minimizes their downsides. If it didn’t it would be a poor excuse to be late to the party. To downplay its one-touch latch basically calls out Systainers only advantage as superfluous. It’s built at least as ruggedly as the most durable system currently out there, of which I have hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth. To top it off, with its multiple footprints it can integrate the finishing work friendliness of TStak and Systainer with the rough-in ready build quality of the ToughSystem in a single system. To call that mediocre or lacking innovation is to drink so much “koolaid” that you’re intoxicated and need a cab.
Yeah that’s all true the only thing I will say is you didn’t see any blocks being dropped on top of the clear lids on the organisers which at least the tough box organiser has the same solid lid in the ds150
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Lol yeah any of the organizers would smash to pieces, that’s for sure. The DS100 is great, and in my mind has the best seal of any ToughSystem box but I never put them on the top of a stack because of fragility concerns.
Do these new packout boxes have the option to put on racking similar to the toughsystem, Huge plus in my books. I have never locked my toughboxes together just the radio to my ds400
Oh @Bremon you are a spirited guy……..much like Milwaukee embellishing here and there ,to make a point …..cordless staplers, heat guns, etc…innovative !!.
Milwaukee is an innovative company,,some great tools..m12 rocks…but
…….no one said packone should be complete right now..
……no one said it’s not a nice system
……no one said it won’t continue to grow
…..no one said tough system is flawless,(best for the Money)
…..no one said use Systainers on the job(but you)
……What I said is iPackOne is not Innovative, Disruptive…..a couple cool features doesn’t make it …Game changing……..Flexvolt is Game Changing ,Sub compact tools are game changing…M12 is game changing……. IN My Opinion……And Dewalt is the Best ….More POWA !!!!’ Lol
Innovative and game changing are not the same thing, to argue PackOut isn’t innovative is laughable, and to paint M12 as gamechanging in the same breath is hilarious. 4 years later they announce brushless tools in their subcompact line that are finally the size of all competitors’ 12v tools and that’s gamechanging? Who’s drinking the koolaid now?
“PackOut is average at best”
“They have no drawer units”
“What is so great, a button to push on the front?”
This is about as disingenuous as saying FlexVolt is just a battery that works on most Dewalt tools. Yeah, they destroyed the cheapest Tough box in their demo. It’s ok. Admitting their product is better doesn’t make the stuff you use any worse than it was before last Wednesday ?. I’d say being “spirited” is preferable to willful ignorance.
Was totally disappointed [emoji17]……just getting in to more M18 was looking forward to a cordless router……my answer is none of the above.[emoji6]
Craigh9916 wrote:
5 hours ago, Craigh9916 said:
I haven’t cracked a tough box yet and not saying they won’t crack but in Milwaukee’s test they used the thinner ds130 box to drop the block on , why would they use the thinnest one and not a ds150 onwards as they are thicker and stronger !
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actually a ds130 is taller than a ds150
KnarlyCarl wrote:
5 hours ago, KnarlyCarl said:Did you hear also, they have a ton of new boxes coming, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Has Milwaukee mentioned what future boxes are coming or was this just them saying more are coming?
I may consider Packout if I ever decide to switch storage solutions. It is superior to tough system at the moment. The only way I could see tough system getting any better is if DeWALT were to make a “gen 2” kinda like what Tanos did with the systainer when they introduced the systainers with t-loc to replace the old systainer system. They were somewhat compatible with the old system but at the same time a new system. I think the metal tubing on packout is a great idea and should be used in tough system. I’d like to see half width boxes and trays for tough system but I’m not sure it is possible without a redesign. Would be cool if the spring loaded handles on current tough system were changed in such a way as to keep current functionality with the wall rack and cart but function as a latching mechanism as well to replace the weak plastic tabs.
Framer joe wrote:
3 hours ago, Framer joe said:…..no one said use Systainers on the job(but you)
I have never seen a systainer in person but I have heard of guys who use festool on the jobsite especially where dust collection is very important. Finish or cabinet guys would use em but a rough-in or framer guy wouldn’t use one.
77Ford wrote:
1 hour ago, 77Ford said:Was totally disappointed [emoji17]……just getting in to more M18 was looking forward to a cordless router……my answer is none of the above.[emoji6]
I’m guessing next year when they release the more powerful battery with the 21700 cells.
It’s an opinion @Bremon…it’s not personal,, last I checked there are no tool experts here just tool enthusiasts and some of use are actual daily hardcore users of tools and storage systems …..no need for “sharp” words, as I respect yours and everyone’s opinion and advice on here…..it’s all good fun and hopefully help someone or learn a thing or two………….What I do miss is Ricky and Fords great deals posted and pics…..
I would like to see Milwaukee make the boxes the tools come in fit with the packout system. You need to buy a new impact? Just click the box on the stack.
Only on TIA do you see this much passion for tool storage! No question does the Packout concept look interesting but for me it is more the smaller units and soft/open storage options that link together vs the analysis of the larger units and debate of whose brand is “tougher” 🙂
For me what has made the Systainer/T-Stak/L-Boxx so attractive and still more so then Packout (at least until I see them) is the diversity in options with organizers/drawers but more importantly in the shop the small carts they have available allow you set up options that are almost limitless with a small footprint.
BLRWI wrote:
6 hours ago, BLRWI said:Only on TIA do you see this much passion for tool storage! No question does the Packout concept look interesting but for me it is more the smaller units and soft/open storage options that link together vs the analysis of the larger units and debate of whose brand is “tougher” 🙂
….,.
Yeah I’m more interesting in the smaller modular cases and bags than anything.
I really liked the auger bits they used with the impact wrench, if it’s making that much cleaner of a hole, that pretty cool. I suspect it’s a rebrand however.
@Framer joe, no offence was intended, just an extensive discussion on our difference of opinions ?, if I was out of line I apologize.
Bmill25 wrote:
11 hours ago, Bmill25 said:I would like to see Milwaukee make the boxes the tools come in fit with the packout system. You need to buy a new impact? Just click the box on the stack.
I would like to see this but I have my doubts, Fuel gear is getting crazy expensive as is. Could be a great way of getting people into the system without having to throw away crappy blow-moulded cases. If you’ve bought a few kits and already have the beginnings of a system it makes more sense to stay in it. Especially if they want to keep the crazy bananas pricing. I wish Dewalt would leverage TStak and ToughSystem better than just a few pack-in deals a few times a year.
KnarlyCarl wrote:
3 hours ago, KnarlyCarl said:
I really liked the auger bits they used with the impact wrench, if it’s making that much cleaner of a hole, that pretty cool. I suspect it’s a rebrand however.
I’ll be sticking to Wood Owl. Those do look nice though! The old school augers with one cutting edge and reamer…you might as well just punch yourself in the face rather than endure the anticipation of when your drill is going to do it for you ?.
Jronman wrote:
Has Milwaukee mentioned what future boxes are coming or was this just them saying more are coming?
I may consider Packout if I ever decide to switch storage solutions. It is superior to tough system at the moment. The only way I could see tough system getting any better is if DeWALT were to make a “gen 2” kinda like what Tanos did with the systainer when they introduced the systainers with t-loc to replace the old systainer system. They were somewhat compatible with the old system but at the same time a new system. I think the metal tubing on packout is a great idea and should be used in tough system. I’d like to see half width boxes and trays for tough system but I’m not sure it is possible without a redesign. Would be cool if the spring loaded handles on current tough system were changed in such a way as to keep current functionality with the wall rack and cart but function as a latching mechanism as well to replace the weak plastic tabs.
I didn’t mention how tall it was ? Just that the DS 150 on wards is thicker ( material used ) and stronger !
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I am a little late on this, but I liked the M12 Stapler… even though I didn’t see that it was brushless? Which I found to be quite odd. Also, I thought the level bag looked cool, but I am guessing it is going to be very expensive. Lastly, the packout system I found to be interesting. It does look awesome and pretty innovative.
M12 Stapler is brushed @FrosBros82, which isn’t too bad. Even the M18 cut out tool is brushed and that thing works way harder than a stapler.
Bremon wrote:
On 6/12/2017 at 5:15 PM, Bremon said:M12 Stapler is brushed @FrosBros82, which isn’t too bad. Even the M18 cut out tool is brushed and that thing works way harder than a stapler.
Touche’, sir. I guess I didn’t really think of it that way? Makes sense, because I am not really sure what application you could do that will make the stapler heatup too much.
Has anyone given any info on how the latching system is protected on the bottom of the Packout? I haven’t seen any pictures.
jkeating3 wrote:
1 hour ago, jkeating3 said:Has anyone given any info on how the latching system is protected on the bottom of the Packout? I haven’t seen any pictures.
I don’t believe that it’s specifically protected. However, you can see from this picture that the latch is very small and only extends minimally below the lip and probably not below the bosses on the bottom of the box that latch into the box below. The two protrusions on either side of the handle also look to extend past the locking tab.
[External image (toolguyd.com), not copied]
Does it need more protection? Who knows, but my guess is that unless you hit it with a hammer in a very specific spot, you’d have a hard time breaking it off.
Set it down in mud and dirt, then see how it works.
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Likely no worse than a dirty tough box, tstak or Systainer ?
Bremon wrote:
Likely no worse than a dirty tough box, tstak or Systainer [emoji23]
Except the locking mechanism is a cleat style interlock. Those small rounded indents will easily hold mud and dirt. Hell, I have had 3 inches of mud stick to my veto, a smooth surface. Imagine what those new totes will be like with mud and dirt sticking to them!
One thing about my Tstaks I do like is that the bottom is fairly smooth and I don’t need to worry about dragging excessive mud into the van!
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Yeah, after seeing the photos on this I am going to have to see some reviews before I pull the trigger. Funny, because I was about to buy the tough system until I realized that this came out. Nothing to do with Milwaukee vs. DeWalt, but more for I want to buy something that will hold up, if that makes sense?
FB82