Archived from the Tools In Action forum (Milwaukee). This thread is read-only.
I understand peoples argument for not buying flexvolt because you can’t use 20v batteries with flexvolt tools. It’s a legitimate argument even though Im not sure why you would want to use a 20v pack on a flexvolt tool except for the fact they are smaller and more portable. Lets talk Milwaukee. Milwaukee touts all m18 batteries work with all m18 tools but is this realistically the case? Sure you can put a 2.0 compact battery on the new fuel hd miter saw or other fuel hd tools and they will run but who actually is going to put a compact battery on a fuel hd tool? You get less power and less runtime. At the very least I could see someone using a 4.0 or 5.0 m18 pack on fuel hd tools but they still got less power and runtime than the 9.0. Do you guys think the ability to use any m18 battery on a fuel hd tool is a good argument for buying fuel hd tools instead of flexvolt tools? I’m just not sure.
I think they are the same. HD9.0 brings its own class of HD tools that you would never use a compact battery on. It’s basically just bragging rights. They had to rerelease the 2361 light to claim backwards compatibility. A 5.0 gets less than half the runtime of a 9.0 (despite the numbers lol), maybe 10 mins on the SDS Max, if it doesn’t overheat first.
I have used my 5.0 on my SDS max and noticed no difference.
I use the 9.0 on all my tools.
I haven’t used a 4.0 on the SDS max yet, and I don’t own anything smaller.
lunicy wrote:
16 minutes ago, lunicy said:I have used my 5.0 on my SDS max and noticed no difference.
I use the 9.0 on all my tools.
I haven’t used a 4.0 on the SDS max yet, and I don’t own anything smaller.
Do you a notice a performance boast with the 9.0 on the sds max ? Compared with the 5.0
Well if my miter saw burned through my 9.0 battery any 5.0 will be useable until the 9.0 had recharged. Not on flexvolt. Makes sense to me. I would not choose to use the high demand tools with smaller batteries but gets you out of a jam until you can afford enough 9.0 batteries. I cannot see why others do not understand this user friendly Milwaukee game plan.
2448jman wrote:
2 hours ago, 2448jman said:I understand peoples argument for not buying flexvolt because you can’t use 20v batteries with flexvolt tools. It’s a legitimate argument even though Im not sure why you would want to use a 20v pack on a flexvolt tool except for the fact they are smaller and more portable. Lets talk Milwaukee. Milwaukee touts all m18 batteries work with all m18 tools but is this realistically the case? Sure you can put a 2.0 compact battery on the new fuel hd miter saw or other fuel hd tools and they will run but who actually is going to put a compact battery on a fuel hd tool? You get less power and less runtime. At the very least I could see someone using a 4.0 or 5.0 m18 pack on fuel hd tools but they still got less power and runtime than the 9.0. Do you guys think the ability to use any m18 battery on a fuel hd tool is a good argument for buying fuel hd tools instead of flexvolt tools? I’m just not sure.
I was under the impression you could use 20v batteries on flex volt tools.
SevenOddosFence wrote:
34 minutes ago, SevenOddosFence said:I was under the impression you could use 20v batteries on flex volt tools.
No, it’s the other way around.
I do like having the ability to use any of my m18 batteries with the tools, it is quite understandable why any one would think the same way
Bremon wrote:
3 hours ago, Bremon said:I think they are the same. HD9.0 brings its own class of HD tools that you would never use a compact battery on. It’s basically just bragging rights. They had to rerelease the 2361 light to claim backwards compatibility. A 5.0 gets less than half the runtime of a 9.0 (despite the numbers lol), maybe 10 mins on the SDS Max, if it doesn’t overheat first.
Yes this is true:
..
The 2361 I got last week is the new one as well. More lumens!
I have read for a while but just joined the forum. I work ag construction building grain bins and grain elevators. It’s pretty common to carry two power tools up a 100′ grain leg, one being more high demand like a grinder or Sawzall and other being an impact or drill. We currently only have 4.0 and 5.0 but I hope to get my hands on a couple 9.0. For me it’s critical to have compatibility because it’s the difference between swapping batteries between the two tools I have to get that one more cut or climbing 100′.
This is also why flexvolt is a huge turn off for me. I like the idea of having a cordless grinder that has the power of a corded and let’s be honest the fuel grinder is good but not corded power good. So now let’s say if I want to carry a flexvolt grinder and impact up to the top of a grain bin. I have to buy another bigger and heavier flexvolt battery to put in the impact just so I have the compatibility for that one more cut with the grinder.
5 extra cells. That’s the weight difference. And it’s a 6.0 in your impact. I can see why guys like it but like I said, it’s a “get you out of a jam” convenience that I likely wouldn’t find I needed much. I can see why people feel more confident with it but when FlexVolt batteries are so much cheaper than 9.0 I would rather just take FlexVolt batteries and stick them in the 20v max tools. Problem solved.
I don’t think Milwaukee’s mitre saw is the one to use as an example either. By the time you’re through 400 cuts you’re probably ready to do something with all that material lol. Grinders I can understand. Sawzall I can understand. I’ve ran the hell out of 5.0s on those with my Fuel gear.
i like my m18 fuel grinder, sawzall, and 7 1/4 skil saw. They all work well with my 5.0 batteries. I have handled the flexvolt tools and with the batteries they are bulkier. I like the option to use the smaller lighter batteries for quick work and I can always add the 9.0 for bigger jobs. I could careless if flexvolt is more powerful, because m18 fuel is powerful enough so I need no more power. There will be deals to be had. the miter saw is 599 with 2 batteries and a charger.
this may not matter to many but the 6 amp flexvolt battery is 2.3 lbs and the m 18 6 amp battery is 1.6 lbs and the 5.0 is 1.5 lbs.
But when the 9.0 drops it will be moot. The 2.0/6.0 was a misstep imo.
For me at least… bottom line, I’m invested in Milwaukee, so that’s what I’m gonna buy. Period. (Whenever I save up $599).
That’s where most lines are drawn in the sand; whatever batteries people already have is where most will stay.
what I like about the Milwaukee direction is I can get a 9.ah battery and slap it on my existing tools and see the benefits I don’t need new tools to make the battery work properly or to it’s full potential ….
That’s the main benefit they have over FlexVolt. The main benefit FlexVolt has is more robust current flow to handle more powerful tools. Have I ran into a situation where my 2731 isn’t capable enough for me? Not really. Does that mean I would be fine if the power tools arms race stood still where we currently are? Not even remotely.
comp56 wrote:
49 minutes ago, comp56 said:what I like about the Milwaukee direction is I can get a 9.ah battery and slap it on my existing tools and see the benefits I don’t need new tools to make the battery work properly or to it’s full potential ….
Yeah it’s really about simplicity. I really hate major platform shifts where they have certain one way compatibles that will end up annoying people down the road where you can use the new battery on an old tool but your old one won’t work with the new tool etc. Sure eventually everyone will be on the new stuff but the old stuff always lingers for a long time. Heck Dewalt just released the lithium battery adapter for their old Nicad packs not too long ago!
I just ordered the Fuel miter deal with 2x9Ah batteries for $540, 10% off coupon on HD, and while I prob won’t use those big packs on my impact it’s nice to know all my tools and lights and vac will freely use the same batteries and the miter can use the smaller packs in a pinch even if I never need to. I don’t have to remember the rules for certain conpatobilities and can grab any tool and any pack without thinking.
There is nothing wrong with flexvolt and I can see why Dewalt did what they did to maintain some sort of compatibility but like it or not it is a new platform and that alway brings some pain along with it. I also think they like the fact that they can label a pack 6 amp for example, the 20v setting, and avoid mentioning it’s only 2.0 amp at 60v. They want their cake and eat it too…
thing is years ago not many people had 20 Milwaukee tools hangin off their garage wall, basically because they were higher priced tools that the pro’s only bought, a regular joe home owner didn’t need to spend that kind of money for tools around the house however now a days these tools have come to almost full circle where as not only the pro’s only buy them but home owners as well, in say that prices have come down because of the market leveling out. Now this is also with many other brands as well so in order to make some revenue they must be different from each other example, One Key, Flex-volt, ect ect……
Part of prices coming down is production scale. People buy new tools instead of keeping the same ones for centuries. Money goes into development making the old tools obsolete so people buy more. Only thing that bothers me is when they appear to intentionally “leave room for growth” in a tool so they can make it obsolete with a new model next year but it’s a small price to pay.
jeffmcmillan wrote:
1 hour ago, jeffmcmillan said:Part of prices coming down is production scale. People buy new tools instead of keeping the same ones for centuries. Money goes into development making the old tools obsolete so people buy more. Only thing that bothers me is when they appear to intentionally “leave room for growth” in a tool so they can make it obsolete with a new model next year but it’s a small price to pay.
haha a few year back ATI video cards for computers got caught doing something like that, they introduced a video card with 32MB of memory, 3 months later they released a newer one with 64mb and shortly after they did someone realized it was the exact same card with the memory unlocked so they produced the cards all the same so with a software update they could unlock the memory…..sneaky …
comp56 wrote:
3 hours ago, comp56 said:haha a few year back ATI video cards for computers got caught doing something like that, they introduced a video card with 32MB of memory, 3 months later they released a newer one with 64mb and shortly after they did someone realized it was the exact same card with the memory unlocked so they produced the cards all the same so with a software update they could unlock the memory…..sneaky …
This kind of thing has been going on A LOT longer than that. While IBM’s billing and leasing arrangements for their old heavy iron mainframe business was complicated they used to have models that were the same across a wide range of the high end market, think super expensive to crazy super expensive, and the only upgrade between some tiers was a technician showing up on site to cut a resistor. Essentially it was like throwing a jumper on a modern computer and you got way more performance. I think on some machines it actually enabled idle CPU’s or even removed CPU loops that sapped performance artificially. The crazy thing was they would even tell the techs to waste time all day and look like they were doing something useful because they didn’t want customers to “feel ripped off” that all the tech did was show up for five minutes and snip a wire 😛
JerryNY wrote:
46 minutes ago, JerryNY said:
This kind of thing has been going on A LOT longer than that. While IBM’s billing and leasing arrangements for their old heavy iron mainframe business was complicated they used to have models that were the same across a wide range of the high end market, think super expensive to crazy super expensive, and the only upgrade between some tiers was a technician showing up on site to cut a resistor. Essentially it was like throwing a jumper on a modern computer and you got way more performance. I think on some machines it actually enabled idle CPU’s or even removed CPU loops that sapped performance artificially. The crazy thing was they would even tell the techs to waste time all day and look like they were doing something useful because they didn’t want customers to “feel ripped off” that all the tech did was show up for five minutes and snip a wire 😛
well pretty tempting when you can buy a 2″x 4″ for $3 cut it in half and sell both halves for $4 each
Could I have the 10% code. Thx. On a side part of the equation is if one likes the actual tools. For instance the Dewalt miter saw is a battery operated 780. I have always found this to be a good framer or exterior saw. The milwaukee looks to be more of a finish saw. The Dewalt right angle drill is huge has anybody handled it ? It’s like The Hulk. A buddy just returned the Dewalt miter saw because for $800 it’s not worth it as he and crew only got a half day on one charge and that baby uses 2 batteries at a time. This could be an issue as Dewalt is all power no runtime.
The 10% code was a one time use personalized code for HD credit card users.
Yeah the problem with the flexvolt miter is that in order to use it as a cordless you must use two batteries so if you want to rotate that’s four identically charged batteries in the rotation at all times. That ain’t cheap. Also the Milwaukee seems to get much better runtime on batteries and you can get two 9 amp batteries in the special with the kit and use any m18 battery in a pinch if you need to, but with two niners you prob could cut all day long and not even need the second battery.
Don’t get me wrong, the Dewalt looks like a nice miter if you want/need a 12″ and want the flexibility of a cordless/corded operation but as a cordless it seems to have a few drawbacks like to use it as a dedicated cordless saw with extra batteries you’re looking at nearly $1k outlay.
It might be a personal pet peeve of mine too but I kinda dislike dual battery setups. In theory they are ok but having to keep dual batteries for one tool means they prob should have just made one larger higher powered pack because you’re gonna dedicate some packs to that tool anyway. That’s just me though…
JerryNY wrote:
2 hours ago, JerryNY said:It might be a personal pet peeve of mine too but I kinda dislike dual battery setups. In theory they are ok but having to keep dual batteries for one tool means they prob should have just made one larger higher powered pack because you’re gonna dedicate some packs to that tool anyway. That’s just me though…
I agree with this line of thinking, it’s not something I want to have to worry about having to have 2 batteries ready to use instead of just 1
Festool makes a dual battery track saw that can run off one battery if you don’t have the second one with you, don’t have model no offhand..
HEY I found it!
….
2 FlexVolt batteries are cheaper than a 9.0 in Canada. The Dewalt looks like it has less deflection, especially at the fence, while the Fuel has potentially more runtime so I would argue the Fuel is better for framing and the FlexVolt is a better finishing saw, especially for large crown.
have you ever used the dewalt dws780 ? Its got no soft start, underpowered, sticky slides, and only one rail has bearings. Its a good chop saw but medoicre slider. The dead spring is very high requiring a lot of force. That being said I own one. Its a gtreat framer. The flexivolt is just this saw with batteries. I highly doubt there is any problem with deflection, makita used the under rails for years along with the big milwaukee and these are some of the more true sliding saws. Most guys I work with consider the dws780 a crew saw or a framer.
head spring not dead spring
and the little short fat guy on this sight is in love with dewalt so I take is opinions with a grain of salt
glass wrote:
6 minutes ago, glass said:and the little short fat guy on this sight is in love with dewalt so I take is opinions with a grain of salt
Who, muffin top? lol
glass wrote:
and the little short fat guy on this sight is in love with dewalt so I take is opinions with a grain of salt
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
JerryNY wrote:
3 hours ago, JerryNY said:The 10% code was a one time use personalized code for HD credit card users.
How this isn’t common knowledge already is beyond me, but HD gives you 10% off just for asking the live chat customer service if you order online. No codes or HD CC’s needed.
glass wrote:
17 minutes ago, glass said:head spring not dead spring
The Fuel spring is no slouch if you browse hands-on opinions. I’ll concede this argument though. Arguing the finer points of a mitre saw that isn’t released yet makes little sense; when they are in the wild and in the hands of many we can argue the holy grail of cordless mitres again. Until I get hands on time with it I’ll treat it with the skepticism I should have gave the nailers instead of following the prerelease hype.
True enough ! We shall see. I sure hope it’s better than the 18 gauge nailer
My fingers are crossed, I want this saw to kick serious ass. If Canada gets the 2x 9.0 deal the USA has and this saw delivers the goods I’ll buy this one and the FlexVolt. The nailers flopping popped my “Milwaukee walks on water” balloon unfortunately lol.
Hugh Jass wrote:
45 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:
How this isn’t common knowledge already is beyond me, but HD gives you 10% off just for asking the live chat customer service if you order online. No codes or HD CC’s needed.
Yeah forgot about that but like in store cashiers don’t always give it up but often do.
Bremon wrote:
10 minutes ago, Bremon said:My fingers are crossed, I want this saw to kick serious ass. If Canada gets the 2x 9.0 deal the USA has and this saw delivers the goods I’ll buy this one and the FlexVolt. The nailers flopping popped my “Milwaukee walks on water” balloon unfortunately lol.
Have faith. I LOVE my 780 and have no issues that others have with the saw. It’s one of those tools that literally make me a better carpenter because it’s just that good. With the 780, the planer, 887 impact, and the 16g nailer I feel like I could do just about anything.
JerryNY wrote:
Just now, JerryNY said:
Yeah forgot about that but like in store cashiers don’t always give it up but often do.
I’ve never had success in store. Never failed asking online.
Hugh Jass wrote:
1 minute ago, Hugh Jass said:
I’ve never had success in store. Never failed asking online.
I’ve had a few successes at the pro checkout.
Ah I never go over there anymore. Used to when I was working with a huge company.
glass wrote:
1 hour ago, glass said:have you ever used the dewalt dws780 ? Its got no soft start, underpowered, sticky slides, and only one rail has bearings. Its a good chop saw but medoicre slider. The dead spring is very high requiring a lot of force. That being said I own one. Its a gtreat framer. The flexivolt is just this saw with batteries. I highly doubt there is any problem with deflection, makita used the under rails for years along with the big milwaukee and these are some of the more true sliding saws. Most guys I work with consider the dws780 a crew saw or a framer.
Workshop Addict is the only place I’ve seen that showed actual testing of the deflection issue and broke out a digital protractor to test it and showed no deflection:
I think the nature of the under mount rail system makes some people think it might be more prone to deflection but Milwaukee seems to be using a pretty sturdy aluminum armature casting which should resist it.
I actually never liked the Dewalt planets. I got the Makita. Lighter quieter and just cuts better. I like the little Dewalt table saws. Not much else does it for me.
Planers
Hugh Jass wrote:
26 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:
Have faith. I LOVE my 780 and have no issues that others have with the saw. It’s one of those tools that literally make me a better carpenter because it’s just that good. With the 780, the planer, 887 impact, and the 16g nailer I feel like I could do just about anything.
I’ve played with the FlexVolt mitre, and am familiar with the 780. Just ordered the XR planer: I have the 660 and 887 as well. All quality units. I have 100% confidence in the 790; it’s the 2734 I’m hesitant about lol.
See what happens when you venture beyond the Dewalt forum by accident? lol. Back to my hole!
Hugh Jass wrote:
1 hour ago, Hugh Jass said:See what happens when you venture beyond the Dewalt forum by accident? lol. Back to my hole!
Begone yellow demon! 😛
The dewalt 790 would work for a crew doing 150 or less cuts in 2×10 lumber (runtime tested by youtuber tool craze). Should be able to get a bit less than 3 times as much in 2×4 lumber. I don’t really see somebody framing a whole house with it while its on battery power especially if it being used by a crew. I could see it being used for smaller jobs. A lot of guys are gonna want at least 2 batteries in the saw and 2 charging. I’m not sure how many cuts you guys and/or the average crew completes each day but if we figure the user/s have access to 4 2.0 flexvolt batteries a bit less than 300 cuts (using tool craze’s numbers) a day in 2×10 or the equivalent amount of cuts in 2×4’s or 2×6’s would the saw satisfy your needs?
The fast chargers make short work charging if you have access to a power, I’d still rather walk for batteries at lunch than string a couple extension cords together for everyone to trip over etc.