Archived from the Tools In Action forum (Pub Talk). This thread is read-only.
F*ck Sawstop. It’s about safety for the tool user right? Bullshit.
*jaw drops*
I would say buy one before they are gone if you want one but Sawstop wants to ban replacement cartridges. My bet is they will work out a deal where they trade patents because the Bosh blade ejection system is superior to Sawstops. You only swap a cartridge not a whole blade and one use consumable like saw stop. With the Bosch saw you get 2 oopsies before you need a whole new cartridge.
Sawstop wants to ban it because it’s cheaper and better than their system. Sawstop want you to pay them for your safety and ONLY them. All in the name of money, Sawstop is the kind of company that wants more people to get injured just so they can get safety regulations passed so every manufacturer has to implement their overpriced system.
Wow. I’m a proud owner of a fantastic Sawstop machine and though the Reaxx cost more than the Sawstop mobile contractor saw, the chance to change out the cartridge rather than the entire blade and brake assembly is a fantastic option. I will say, the owner of Sawstop is a money sucking attorney that is trying to completely monopolize the market with his machine. Albeit a fantastically designed, pro grade machine but right is right and wrong is wrong and this is wrong. Every person that chooses to work professionally in construction or recreationally should be entitled to a safer machine regardless of who makes it.
Yea wow is all I can say, I understand patents and they are there to protect companies intellectual properties but what is the infringement? that it protects your finger?
This article shows the arrogance of sawstop “SawStop is asking ITC to exclude Bosch from bringing the saw into the US, including all parts and cartridges.” the saw has been sold in the US and they shouldn’t block consumers that already run these saws from getting the cartridge. Sawstop is a little contradicting as they state “We have invested millions of dollars in research and development to protect woodworkers from serious injury” but they are spending money to stop a product that protects workers, if they were truly cared about the protection of the woodworker they shouldn’t be so greedy.
I thought Monopolies were illegal?
ChrisK wrote:
10 hours ago, ChrisK said:Wow. I’m a proud owner of a fantastic Sawstop machine and though the Reaxx cost more than the Sawstop mobile contractor saw, the chance to change out the cartridge rather than the entire blade and brake assembly is a fantastic option. I will say, the owner of Sawstop is a money sucking attorney that is trying to completely monopolize the market with his machine. Albeit a fantastically designed, pro grade machine but right is right and wrong is wrong and this is wrong. Every person that chooses to work professionally in construction or recreationally should be entitled to a safer machine regardless of who makes it.
DPSElias wrote:
2 hours ago, DPSElias said:Yea wow is all I can say, I understand patents and they are there to protect companies intellectual properties but what is the infringement? that it protects your finger?
This article shows the arrogance of sawstop “SawStop is asking ITC to exclude Bosch from bringing the saw into the US, including all parts and cartridges.” the saw has been sold in the US and they shouldn’t block consumers that already run these saws from getting the cartridge. Sawstop is a little contradicting as they state “We have invested millions of dollars in research and development to protect woodworkers from serious injury” but they are spending money to stop a product that protects workers, if they were truly cared about the protection of the woodworker they shouldn’t be so greedy.
I thought Monopolies were illegal?
I’m mostly of the opinion on both these points, but I’m just going to grab the popcorn and see how this plays out!
isn’t there a law that doesn’t allow monopolies anymore or something similar? Sawstop may claim that other tool companies are the ones putting people in harm because they wont use sawstops system but I think its sawstop themselves causing more harm than the other tool companies. I say this because sawstop wants tool companies to have finger sensing brakes but wont allow them to make their own designs.
2448jman wrote:
2 hours ago, 2448jman said:isn’t there a law that doesn’t allow monopolies anymore or something similar? Sawstop may claim that other tool companies are the ones putting people in harm because they wont use sawstops system but I think its sawstop themselves causing more harm than the other tool companies. I say this because sawstop wants tool companies to have finger sensing brakes but wont allow them to make their own designs.
Because he wants to eventually sell them his design and make more $$$ not save fingers. I won’t bash his product. It’s an awesome machine that cuts like a dream and has a rock solid table and fence. Right up there with Powermatic, Laguna etc….But….the owner / designer is clearly a money grubbing lawyer.
Told ya folks, this would happen! I wouldn’t get a Sawstop, if they gave it to me for FREE! Has others have said, Bosch’s design, is a ton better! We will have to see how this all plays out, has I am sure there will be an appeal.
So what I understand is that it isn’t a monopoly because they are willing to allow other companies to pay to use their design. I don’t know lawyer speak. All I know is that Rockefeller and the original super capitalists got into a lot of trouble for “unfair business practices.” I’m not sure what this is but it seems off especially since people are successfully sueing power tool companies over them not incorporating flesh detection systems and the courts are holding them liable for injuries to the consumer.
The sawstop inventor is a douce is all I know. I’d rather cut all my fingers off with a hepatitis ridden butter knife than give him a dime of my money.
http://mydigimag.rrd.com/publication/?i=36523&article_id=376181&view=articleBrowser&ver=html5
Basically it’s a “defective saw” because the power tool companies “colluded” to keep the sawstop technology out of it, but it is okay that sawstop calls for a stop when a power tool manufacturer makes their own improved design completely different from theirs. In all fairness I hear the Reaxx is a far inferior saw but superior safety mechanism.
Stercorarius wrote:
6 minutes ago, Stercorarius said:Basically it’s a “defective saw” because the power tool companies “colluded” to keep the sawstop technology out of it, but it is okay that sawstop calls for a stop when a power tool manufacturer makes their own improved design completely different from theirs. In all fairness I hear the Reaxx is a far inferior saw but superior safety mechanism.
gernerally speaking the SawStop and Reaxx are different kinds of saws. Reaxx is job site saw and SawStop in many cases reffers to one of their cabinet grade models. Maybe not their job site saw? I wonder if many companies secretly are making their own flesh sensing saw but wont release until SawStop stops suing companies. I seen something a while back that wasn’t a tablesaw with flesh sensing tech but more an attachment to the top of the saw with flesh sensing tech. It wasn’t technically part of the saw just an attachment on top. I wonder if its still around or if SawStop has stopped it from being built.
Bosh has way to much money tied up in this saw in the us> They also have Very Deep pockets and it is time for their Corporate Lawyers to earn their keep. I can guarantee this is far from over.
regopit wrote:
3 hours ago, regopit said:Bosh has way to much money tied up in this saw in the us> They also have Very Deep pockets and it is time for their Corporate Lawyers to earn their keep. I can guarantee this is far from over.
I hope Bosch wins out and the big companies absolutely flush this turd down the toilet.
Sawstop has been stifling innovation From day one. From over a year ago “In response to SawStop, five of the larger companies—including Black & Decker, Bosch and Ryobi—formed a joint venture to develop their own injury reduction system. The joint venture ended in 2009, when members said they had developed a safety system superior to SawStop’s, though they have yet to include it in a single saw.”. (Abovethelaw.com)
We all know why it wasn’t included now, because this is sawstop way of competing.
Also this makes me hate them even more.
The Blue Empire Strikes back!!
Well Sawstop only has 5 years left on their patents anyways, so like the radio charger and omt the market will be flooded down the road eventually. http://www.coptool.com/bosch-reaxx-strikes-back-on-current-sawstop-lawsuit/
DR99 wrote:
18 hours ago, DR99 said:The Blue Empire Strikes back!!
Well Sawstop only has 5 years left on their patents anyways, so like the radio charger and omt the market will be flooded down the road eventually. http://www.coptool.com/bosch-reaxx-strikes-back-on-current-sawstop-lawsuit/
Actually a pretty good article. Sounds like sales are still going and support is still available!
I just feel like Bosch would easily have the resources and means to counter this suit without much of a hiccup to their overall operation
The bully tactics of SawStop makes me sure or 1 thing…I won’t ever own one!
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I would like to own a Powermatic table saw with built in router table. I heard their table saw is one of the best.
2448jman wrote:
9 minutes ago, 2448jman said:I would like to own a Powermatic table saw with built in router table. I heard their table saw is one of the best.
Go to the Wood Whisperer. He’s got one painted in flames from the factory!
ChrisK wrote:
23 minutes ago, ChrisK said:Go to the Wood Whisperer. He’s got one painted in flames from the factory!
he was actually the one where I heard about the finger sensing add on to table saws. Seen pictures of it on a bandsaw, scrollsaw, and lathe. So maybe it adds safety to these tools as well?
http://www.whirlwindtool.com
2448jman wrote:
1 hour ago, 2448jman said:
he was actually the one where I heard about the finger sensing add on to table saws. Seen pictures of it on a bandsaw, scrollsaw, and lathe. So maybe it adds safety to these tools as well?
http://www.whirlwindtool.com
I have actually never heard of that before. Thanks for the link!
ChrisK wrote:
Just now, ChrisK said:I have actually never heard of that before. Thanks for the link!
I like how whirlwind is bringing flesh technology to tools other than tablesaws. I think all tools need some kind of safety measure to prevent harm to the user. It doesn’t gotta be flesh sensing or as fancy as say SawStop or Reaxx. Theres always going to be a chance where a user gets in a rush and forgets to use proper use of tool and/or use proper safety measures and looses a finger or gets hurt in some other way.
ChrisK wrote:
On 9/17/2016 at 0:36 PM, ChrisK said:I have actually never heard of that before. Thanks for the link!
I’ve known of whirlwind for a while. It looks like really great tech but he’s been trying to license it for years now and no one is biting. My guess is that the big players operate on such thin margins that they’d rather spend the $$$ on their own R&D than have an ongoing licensing cost (capex vs oppex for those on the business end of finance).
Its to a real shame because it looks like A great idea. I just wish someone would buy it up and package it as an add on so you don’t have to spend 3 grand on a sawstop to be safe.
Here is a little something to read. It doesn’t look like Bosch is going to go away with out a fight.
Good for them! Well the initial ruling doesn’t spark confidence but get it while you still can apparantly…
I read on the internet that in the Sawstop manufacturing process they have to kill 400 puppies per saw. You don’t want puppies to die right? I also hear that Sawstop is using 20% of it’s profit to petition the United States to reinstate prohibition of alcohol.