Archived from the Tools In Action forum (Dewalt). This thread is read-only.
So I recently heard about from a co-worker at work that Dewalt is going to introduce a new line of tools that use 120v batteries. Supposedly any 120v battery will be smart enough to know if it connects to a 120v tool or a 20v tool and if connected to a 20v tool it will only output 20v instead of the full 120v. I was also told Dewalt will be releasing them in the next month or so. I tried searching the web for information about the new tools but found nothing. Not sure if this is true or not. Thought I would ask if it is or not and wondered what people thought about this rumor.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and just say NO WAY.
I do know of some rumors about some other stuff that may have been twisted around to this rumor you’re talking about though.
Yeah plenty of rumors going around about DeWalt releasing batteries that can do different voltages. I’m guessing if there is any truth to it it will be more along the lines of like 40v for SDS, miter saw, or other stationary cordless products where power is valued over weight. Probably to compete with Makita twin battery setup and Waukees 9Ah. A guy who is in the know on here did hint about some major game changing stuff going on this year.
rossi7x wrote:
On 3/25/2016 at 1:12 PM, rossi7x said:I test tools for Dewalt in the UK, and we have to sign NDA’s (Non disclosures).. This particular ‘episode’ is part of a bigger picture which will all become apparent ‘soon’… It’s not just Dewalt who would be upset at this problem, as any of the Manufacturers would feel the same.. Big Up to TIA for respecting their relationship with Dewalt, and acting accordingly…
The fact that this particular unit hit the headlines and ended up where it did will surely spark some ‘reviews’ of who, what, when and where…
This time next year the full picture will become clear…. ‘Mum’s the Word’….
This
It was in a thread where we saw a sneak peak at a possibly fan cooled new battery.
I’ve heard that thy are going to have a voltage switching battery so it could either be lets say a 6 ah 20v/18v or a 3 ah 40v/36v. Now the thing I don’t understand is that they have 40v in their OPE line so why would they have two different 40v lines unless it could be a 24v then steps down to their 20/18 line but it will be interesting to see all depends on how the pack is wired but you know how big that pack would have to be for 120v? Look how big the OPE batteries for ego are and those are only 56v.
Jimbo
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Stercorarius wrote:
37 minutes ago, Stercorarius said:It was in a thread where we saw a sneak peak at a possibly fan cooled new battery.
Took care of the doubled posts dude 🙂
ChrisK wrote:
Took care of the doubled posts dude [emoji4]
Monday morning stutters lol happens to us all!
Ha, tell me about it 😉
I heard from a source who always has inside scoops on tools that dewalt was working on a 120v line. He was under the impression it was a two battery system though. He hasn’t been wrong yet so who knows
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DarynH wrote:
1 hour ago, DarynH said:I heard from a source who always has inside scoops on tools that dewalt was working on a 120v line. He was under the impression it was a two battery system though. He hasn’t been wrong yet so who knows
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That would be really a game changer, so 2 x 60v?
JimboS1ice wrote:
9 hours ago, JimboS1ice said:
That would be really a game changer, so 2 x 60v?
This rumor has been going about for a while now. You’ve nailed the whispers I’ve been hearing, a 60v line of tools. This could function to replace the aging lines of tools that are larger than 20v, all of which are only mildly supported and rarely updated in commercial settings. A refresh of the entire system would do what 20v did for the 18v line. New tools. New marketing. Fresh product.
I’ve been in construction for a long time (fortune 500 companies even) and I’ve never even seen a 36v/40v tool with my own eyes in the field. 300 tradesmen on a single job, and I worked on 10 of them like this and never spotted a single person using it. That means it’s a failed product IMO.
But a 60v line could replace it all, and allow a user to combine two together in series to produce 120v, the holy grail of cordless voltage. Frankly I think it’s brilliant because it means cutting cords for tools that people think it would take another 20 years to produce, could be available now.
That said, I think if Dewalt were smart at all they’d go a step further and offer a converter on their 60v line and forget producing specific compatible tools all together. Why? Because a converter would allow one to run ANY 120v tool by simply plugging that tool into a cordless box effectively making a silent limited power ultra portable generator. Sounds goofy, but if I had a dollar for every time I needed a 120v tool without access to a power outlet… Imagine dragging out a 10″ table saw and plugging it into a small box with 2 batteries in it and ripping lumber in power inaccessible places, no extension cords or worry about parasitic amp loss over long distances…I shit giggles just thinking about it.
For any money Dewalt would lose in lack of tool sales that would necessitate a 60v platform, they’d make up for just in sales of batteries to feed a generator source like this. For this reason, I think that a single 120v battery makes WAY more sense. A portable power outlet for the masses…even if it were a 15lb brick at $250 a piece I’d buy 3 day 1.
I heard from a rep today that the June release will be huge. After reading this post I asked him about the possibility of a 120V battery. He looked at me funny, then would neither confirm nor deny anything regarding batteries. I got the feeling that 120V was wrong… But that there was more to the story he was not saying.
I specifically asked about a brushless circular saw, and was again brushed off. I finally said I’m going to buy one today unless you think I should wait until July, he said he would wait a little longer if it were his money!
I also asked about expansion on 40V into construction tools and… Shocker… Neither confirm nor deny… But I did get a hint that they would be releasing something that can handle 1 9/16 sds max bits. 20V? 40V? 60V? Who knows!!
dilloncorr wrote:
2 minutes ago, dilloncorr said:I heard from a rep today that the June release will be huge. After reading this post I asked him about the possibility of a 120V battery. He looked at me funny, then would neither confirm nor deny anything regarding batteries. I got the feeling that 120V was wrong… But that there was more to the story he was not saying.
I specifically asked about a brushless circular saw, and was again brushed off. I finally said I’m going to buy one today unless you think I should wait until July, he said he would wait a little longer if it were his money!
I also asked about expansion on 40V into construction tools and… Shocker… Neither confirm nor deny… But I did get a hint that they would be releasing something that can handle 1 9/16 sds max bits. 20V? 40V? 60V? Who knows!!
The last time a rep was right about the future of anything regarding their own company’s trade secrets and future releases…
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Okay you guys, you are like kids just before Christmas, all of us from Dewalt are not allowed to tell what you are getting for Christmas ??
So you have to wait and see what under the tree
Sorry ?
Creating a power cell to run any corded tool would be shooting themselves in the foot. The goal of new products is to sell you their line and as many new tools as possible, a power cell would grant you the power to use old tools or other brands. I planned to make a Lipo powered cell or get a 120vac to 18vdc power supply a few years ago with a 10′ cord going to an old battery pack so I could use my old cordless tools for extended periods of time. While searching I noticed that Dewalt used to make a converter that allowed you to use their 18v cordless tools with 120 vac, but they discontinued it. That is a great idea for a homeowner that is usually not without power nearby, but it probably decreased sales for batteries and corded tools some so they got rid of it. I had eventually bought corded tools to use for extended projects so I gave up on my power cell. Now that I switched to Milwaukee I wouldn’t need it anyway.
Dano123 wrote:
14 hours ago, Dano123 said:Creating a power cell to run any corded tool would be shooting themselves in the foot. The goal of new products is to sell you their line and as many new tools as possible, a power cell would grant you the power to use old tools or other brands. I planned to make a Lipo powered cell or get a 120vac to 18vdc power supply a few years ago with a 10′ cord going to an old battery pack so I could use my old cordless tools for extended periods of time. While searching I noticed that Dewalt used to make a converter that allowed you to use their 18v cordless tools with 120 vac, but they discontinued it. That is a great idea for a homeowner that is usually not without power nearby, but it probably decreased sales for batteries and corded tools some so they got rid of it. I had eventually bought corded tools to use for extended projects so I gave up on my power cell. Now that I switched to Milwaukee I wouldn’t need it anyway.
I can’t agree. The sales of the converter would drive the sales of the necessary batteries to run them which would eclipse the sales of tools missing from a lineup. Cordless tools themselves don’t have large profit margins, their money makers are batteries and accessories. Forcing everyone into proprietary battery tech and also the tools that use them actually hurts the bottom line over time, because anything Joe isn’t offering you can always get from Bob, and Joe hurts because of it. If Dewalt or anyone else developed what I’m speaking of, like you said any brand would work, meaning they’d develop batteries that not only drive their proprietary tools, but any tools that are corded as well. It would be the equivalent of buying (rather big) AA batteries for converting corded to cordless, the first to patent it would win, as competitors would likely pay royalties to then develop their own units after success, which in turn drives more cash flow. It’s industrial diversification.
It’s a game changing idea IMO and could become ubiquitous for isolated jobsites without access to power for tools, camping, etc, without having to use an expensive gas generator, which is something I don’t even own because it’s just too cumbersome, maintenance sucks, noisy, and pricey.
A power source for any corded tool just isn’t feasible because corded tools are designed around having an infinite power supply so they waste a huge amount of power. High draw cordless tools will take around 30A (rough estimate based on runtime and battery capacity) which at 18V is around a quarter of the power from a 15A 120V tool.
That said, lithium ion packs with inverters to produce mains power already exist a lot like a generator but they’re prohibitively expensive, and being effectively tied to a generator doesn’t help like a real cordless tool.
jeffmcmillan wrote:
9 minutes ago, jeffmcmillan said:A power source for any corded tool just isn’t feasible because corded tools are designed around having an infinite power supply so they waste a huge amount of power. High draw cordless tools will take around 30A (rough estimate based on runtime and battery capacity) which at 18V is around a quarter of the power from a 15A 120V tool.
That said, lithium ion packs with inverters to produce mains power already exist a lot like a generator but they’re prohibitively expensive, and being effectively tied to a generator doesn’t help like a real cordless tool.
My two cents is that guys like my dad who refuse to cut the cord already have a system in place for when they can’t get power. My dad has a small Honda generator about slightly larger than a car battery that he uses. No way would he be willing to spend more money on batteries to do less than a generator. My grandpa is the same way. That being said Mr. Jass does make a good point about the few guys like himself who have needs and would be willing to use this. If someone asked me if a cordless battery welder should be made I’d tell them that is retarded, yet DeWalt makes one so you never know.
Hugh Jass wrote:
7 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:
I can’t agree. The sales of the converter would drive the sales of the necessary batteries to run them which would eclipse the sales of tools missing from a lineup. Cordless tools themselves don’t have large profit margins, their money makers are batteries and accessories. Forcing everyone into proprietary battery tech and also the tools that use them actually hurts the bottom line over time, because anything Joe isn’t offering you can always get from Bob, and Joe hurts because of it. If Dewalt or anyone else developed what I’m speaking of, like you said any brand would work, meaning they’d develop batteries that not only drive their proprietary tools, but any tools that are corded as well. It would be the equivalent of buying (rather big) AA batteries for converting corded to cordless, the first to patent it would win, as competitors would likely pay royalties to then develop their own units after success, which in turn drives more cash flow. It’s industrial diversification.
It’s a game changing idea IMO and could become ubiquitous for isolated jobsites without access to power for tools, camping, etc, without having to use an expensive gas generator, which is something I don’t even own because it’s just too cumbersome, maintenance sucks, noisy, and pricey.
I can see both sides to it and I am sure the tech is already out there. My buddy uses an automotive battery, inverter and a solar charger when he camps and that system has ran a microwave so it would run most tools. I am sure something like that will be out sooner or later, but I see more of a shift to make higher powered tools cordless with the new battery tech they have coming out.
I have a small Kawasaki generator. I think it is only good enough to charge my batteries. I tried it with my table saw and it kept tripping the breaker.
I have a large DeWalt generator. It rarely gets used because it’s so big.
I think battery technology will only continue to evolve. It wasn’t really that long ago, a cordless drill was the only thing available. Now I can’t even remember the last time I used my corded circular saw. (I do remodeling. If I had more new construction, it would be different.)
All this discussion about multi battery packs and alternators/generators, here is some dumb basic electrical math:
Amps X Volts = Watts
For most generators (which are actually alternators), they have an 80 % rule. If you have a 2000 watt generator, it can start 2000 watts (or a little more) but has a sustainable load capacity of 1600 watts. Most tools use almost double rated capacity to start (unless they use a “soft-start” system, which is usually a capacitor of some sort to start), meaning a 10 amp grinder is going to need 18 to 20 amps to get up to operating speed. Doing the math, for every day use (not going to hurt the grinder or generator) 125Volts X 20Amps = 2500 watts. You can probably get by with a 2200 watt generator, if it only had to run a single tool. If you are on a job site and you have one guy mixing mud with a 1/2″ drill and somebody else running a miter saw, circular saw or portable table saw, you are looking at the need for a generator in the 4500-5000 watt range. All that said, the small suitcase type generators that are a little bigger than a car battery are usually around 1000 watts or good for about 8 amps max.
As for multi-battery set ups there are two different ways to use them. You can wire them in series and achieve double the voltage or you can wire them in parallel and get double the Amp/Hours. Either of which would have it’s own advantages.
To keep things in perspective here guys, a 2000w Honda costs ~$1100 USD. A 7,000w costs $4,000. Still makes some noise. Still uses gas. Still requires regular maintenance. Still costs an arm and a dick.
At this price point, alternatives have plenty of room to exist in the battery market.
Grumpy MSG wrote:
On 5/20/2016 at 8:45 PM, Grumpy MSG said:As for multi-battery set ups there are two different ways to use them. You can wire them in series and achieve double the voltage or you can wire them in parallel and get double the Amp/Hours. Either of which would have it’s own advantages.
So could one use 30v in series x2 and 30v in parallel x2 for 120v at double the amp/hr with 4 batteries instead?
Hugh Jass wrote:
57 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:
So could one use 30v in series x2 and 30v in parallel x2 for 120v at double the amp/hr with 4 batteries instead?
Why not use what DeWALT already has for the example. If you had 3 40V batteries 7.5 Ah, wired up in series, you would have a total of 120V DC with 7.5 Ah available. If you wanted to double the Ah available you would need 6 batteries 3 in series X 2 and those run in parallel. but at the end of the day you still have DC voltage not AC, so you would need some sort of an inverter system to allow it to power AC tools like a table saw or 9 inch grinder.
Money was brought up, so let’s do a little math: 3 X 279.00, call it $250 to make it easy, and you have $750 in batteries alone, inverters are not inexpensive, so I don’t think you are going to beat the price for a DeWALT DXGNR 7000 generator from Home Depot at $999 and they and they are in stock at stores.
Most of the inverter sytems that I know of actually run off of 12 or 24 volts DC, so it would be a bit of a special application design. I don’t know what kind of wattage and run time you could off of one of the 40V 7.5Ah batteries. If it was set up to run multiple packs in parallel you could double or triple the run time or just use a single battery to save weight if you have to lug it around
Grumpy MSG wrote:
Why not use what DeWALT already has for the example. If you had 3 40V batteries 7.5 Ah, wired up in series, you would have a total of 120V DC with 7.5 Ah available. If you wanted to double the Ah available you would need 6 batteries 3 in series X 2 and those run in parallel. but at the end of the day you still have DC voltage not AC, so you would need some sort of an inverter system to allow it to power AC tools like a table saw or 9 inch grinder.……
Not necessarily, if the motor is a universal motor, it could use either one yes? A lot of universal motors out there
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Yeah you can just put 120v of batteries on any Universal motor. Itll work without a problem 🙂
KnarlyCarl wrote:
On 5/22/2016 at 1:38 AM, KnarlyCarl said:Not necessarily, if the motor is a universal motor, it could use either one yes? A lot of universal motors out there
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So now we have to redesign the tools to run a motor that can be run on both AC and DC? I am not an electric motor guy by any stretch of the imagination, but I would guess it would require rewiring like it does to switch from 120 to 240 volts, or it would require some sort of electronic switching device. I will leave that mess to the engineers to figure out…
Grumpy MSG wrote:
So now we have to redesign the tools to run a motor that can be run on both AC and DC? I am not an electric motor guy by any stretch of the imagination, but I would guess it would require rewiring like it does to switch from 120 to 240 volts, or it would require some sort of electronic switching device. I will leave that mess to the engineers to figure out…
Nah I mean that a lot, A LOT of corded tools already have universal motors, they are already capable of using DC power of the same voltage!
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Patience grasshoppas… let it happen naturally 😛
I’ll let it happen, just mulling a few things over in my blue collar brain…
So hypothetically, DeWalt comes out with a battery that is 120v or a pack of smaller batteries in series (the 40v ones) that would add up to 120v and could be a portable power source for corded rotary hammers, circular saws, routers, miter saws, table saws, etc..without modification from the power source nor to the universal motor inside the power tool.. hmm so would that be enough for some of the higher demand ones in a pinch or for a short run of the tool for a small job? Probably, and technically, it shouldn’t have any ill effect on the tool, regardless of brand. I bet it could also be variable speed due to the DC power…. Think of the safety precautions though….
Bosch just released their big ass battery pack in belgium
A 1500 wh battery on wheels with 2 electrical plugs on there. Can output a maximum of 1500 watts 🙂
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That’s awesome
Jimbo
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Yeah ! 2500 euro’s of awesome 😀 without vat ! 😛
For those wondering, that’s equivalent to an 83Ah 18V battery in gas. It would cost about 38c in electricity to recharge (ignoring charging inefficiencies).
1500W output is impressive! Can run some decent tools on that!
kornomaniac wrote:
3 hours ago, kornomaniac said:Yeah ! 2500 euro’s of awesome 😀 without vat ! 😛
Sounds like DeWALT’s welder kind of pricing $3,999.99 US…
kornomaniac wrote:
Bosch just released their big ass battery pack in belgium
A 1500 wh battery on wheels with 2 electrical plugs on there. Can output a maximum of 1500 watts [emoji4]
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Wow! Ha that’s cool, is it well received? What is it designed to power?
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Its part of their 36v garden tools. You can plug in 2 of the 36v battery chargers into that ‘ lithium power unit’ and charge your tool batteries troughout the day 🙂
But since it can provider up to 1500 watts you could also put a small angle grinder or something in it 🙂
See, I told you bastages I’m only a little crazy. I’d buy that with just a bit more power for sure. Might consider it anyway.
So some of the speculation in this thread just got relevant…lol!
overanalyze wrote:
1 minute ago, overanalyze said:So some of the speculation in this thread just got relevant…lol!
I almost forgot about this thread!
overanalyze wrote:
4 hours ago, overanalyze said:So some of the speculation in this thread just got relevant…lol!
No kidding. In hindsight you would have thought I had inside info based on what I was saying. They pretty much answered my request directly with interest.