Archived from the Tools In Action forum (Dewalt). This thread is read-only.
JC wrote:
So are the new XRP marked lithium-ion batteries different than the “regular” lithium-ion ones? Or is it just the look?
They are the same batteries, just a new marketing strategy. In fact this is the third cosmetic change in the last 12 months on this battery. I understand that dewalt is doing away with the Nano campaign. It will now just be cal XRP-Lithium Ion. I did this test with the lithium battery, but this drill (DCD950) will still come packaged with the XRP battery.
Actually, they are different, updated circuits, cells and they are shipped in “sleep mode”
JC wrote:
The premium packs (XRP) now offer Sony and Samsung cells, the updated circuits also includes fade; this is similar to NiCd where you can determine when the battery voltage is low, on the XRP Li-ion, the circuit cuts the voltage so you have a gradual shut down rather than a hard shut down. The DC9181 launched with Sony cells
Sony and Samsung…. hmmmm. :-\
How will the customer know what they are getting?
Is Samsung now offering some type of NANO or Iron Phosphate?
Will the XRP packs use the same Sony cells as the Compact packs?
Will the Sony/Samsung cells get the already advertised 2000 recharge cycle life? DC9181 is advertised at 800-1000?
Will the cost of the battery come down, as well as any combo kit that uses Lithium?
JC wrote:
Sony and Samsung…. hmmmm. :-\
You act like this is a bad thing 😉
How will the customer know what they are getting?
The performance are the same
Is Samsung now offering some type of NANO or Iron Phosphate?
Yes
Will the XRP packs use the same Sony cells as the Compact packs?
They do
Will the Sony/Samsung cells get the already advertised 2000 recharge cycle life? DC9181 is advertised at 800-1000?
Same as current XRP
Will the cost of the battery come down, as well as any combo kit that uses Lithium?
It will, eventually
[External image (www.hardwaresalesinc.net), not copied]
Information from Wiki under Lithium Iron Phosphate;
“…BOSCH and South Korea SAMSUNG are cooperating to develop lithium batteries and carry out mass production at a cost of about 4,000,000 U.S. dollars[5]. Although it is predicted that it will take about four to five years to move into the matured stage, BOSCH in any case will continue to invest in this effort in order to maintain its position as the top leader in the automobile technology….”
I am assuming this is the Samsung’s version of the iron phosphate technology? Bosch as well as many others are currently using Samsung Cells.
Will the A123 be dropped all together? Or will they be still used in the 36v, 28v, and possibly the new 10.8v line we keep hearing buzzes about?
JC wrote:
[External image (www.hardwaresalesinc.net), not copied]
Information from Wiki under Lithium Iron Phosphate;
“…BOSCH and South Korea SAMSUNG are cooperating to develop lithium batteries and carry out mass production at a cost of about 4,000,000 U.S. dollars[5]. Although it is predicted that it will take about four to five years to move into the matured stage, BOSCH in any case will continue to invest in this effort in order to maintain its position as the top leader in the automobile technology….”
I am assuming this is the Samsung’s version of the iron phosphate technology? Bosch as well as many others are currently using Samsung Cells.
Will the A123 be dropped all together? Or will they be still used in the 36v, 28v, and possibly the new 10.8v line we keep hearing buzzes about?
As you may know, their are currently four different chemistries of Li-ion: Cobalt oxide (most of the competitors use this, high capacity but poor charge cycles) Mannganese (i think that is how it is spelt) Phosphate (A123, Sony, and now Samsung) and lithium polymer (used in most cell phone batteries and laptops) and each competitor has their own brand of what goes into the cells. DeWalt engineers (as do many other) have strict guidelines on how Li-ion Cells are processed and perform……
A123 will still be used…..
As for the new line……..let’s just say it will be a game changer 😉 and it’s going to be 12v; 10.8v in EUR.
Good to know, any chance you have an idea on a release date?
JC wrote:
Good to know, any chance you have an idea on a release date?
3rd of 4th qtr of this year………This will be the first wave, so you know their will be a lot more to come 🙂
FWIW, there is a new review up over at protoolreviews.com that looks at the new Dewalt DC9180C Lithium-Ion XRP battery. It’s not a tear down, but it was used pretty hard in the field for a couple weeks and found to be very reliable. The review might be more suited for those coming off of Ni-Cad.
Great review
“So are the new XRP marked lithium-ion batteries different than the “regular” lithium-ion ones? Or is it just the look?”
And now this drill (DCD950) come packaged with the Li-ion battery now.
and the the 36V dc9360 is li-ion with A123 (10pcs) battery cell
toptoolscenter wrote:
“So are the new XRP marked lithium-ion batteries different than the “regular” lithium-ion ones? Or is it just the look?”
And now this drill (DCD950) come packaged with the Li-ion battery now.
and the the 36V dc9360 is li-ion with A123 (10pcs) battery cell
Just the look
950 comes with XRP NiCad Batteries, the 970 comes with the XRP Li-ion Batteries
:)DCD950 have li-ion battery now,and dcd970 is also use xrp and li-ion battery,thanks
toptoolscenter wrote:
:)DCD950 have li-ion battery now,and dcd970 is also use xrp and li-ion battery,thanks
No: http://dewalt.com/tools/cordless-drills-hammerdrills-dcd950kx.aspx
the dcd950 is can use 18V XRP battery also used dc9180 li-ion battery,thanks
Madtec wrote:
The premium packs (XRP) now offer Sony and Samsung cells, the updated circuits also includes fade; this is similar to NiCd where you can determine when the battery voltage is low, on the XRP Li-ion, the circuit cuts the voltage so you have a gradual shut down rather than a hard shut down. The DC9181 launched with Sony cells
how gradual of a shutdown? why would they do this? i want full power until the battery is dead.
i hope dewalt doesnt do the same to the 36 volt batteries.
I think all Nicads lose power as they die and lithium ion gives you a consistent power band right till the end.
framer wrote:
The premium packs (XRP) now offer Sony and Samsung cells, the updated circuits also includes fade; this is similar to NiCd where you can determine when the battery voltage is low, on the XRP Li-ion, the circuit cuts the voltage so you have a gradual shut down rather than a hard shut down. The DC9181 launched with Sony cells
how gradual of a shutdown? why would they do this? i want full power until the battery is dead.
i hope dewalt doesnt do the same to the 36 volt batteries.
It is just an indication that the battery will need to be charged, so it is not a long drawn out slowdown like NiCd. 36v stays the way it is……..
I really like the lithium ion batteries preformance over ni-cad and ni-hi batteries. Please consider (2) batteries when offering your products. The consumer is looking for preformance, quality, usefulness, and then price in today’s economy.
mojoe wrote:
I really like the lithium ion batteries preformance over ni-cad and ni-hi batteries. Please consider (2) batteries when offering your products. The consumer is looking for preformance, quality, usefulness, and then price in today’s economy.
I am a little confused about that statement. What do you mean by (2) batteries? Do you mean that they should package 2 batteries with tools? If that is the case, the majority os toosl sold with batteries do in fact come with two, the saws and grinder are exceptions to that of course.
As to Li-on vs. NiCad, everyone has their opinion. The reality is that there are definite benefits to both chemistries, and that the deciding factor should be the intended use for the tool. If you are gonig to be working in extreme temperature conditions, or work your tools extremely hard, go with NiCad. If you are working in more “normal” conditions, go Li-on. Honestly they are both great, and I have lots of each so that I can plug the appropriate battery into any of my 18v tools to fit my use for any given day.
I was also skeptical about the artificial draw down on the Li-on batteries, as I do not want to lose power when I don’t have to. Having used this feature now hwoever, it is actually really nice. It only affectsyour last screw or two, and just slows down the speed a little bit, so you know to chnage the pack.
kjones wrote:
I really like the lithium ion batteries preformance over ni-cad and ni-hi batteries. Please consider (2) batteries when offering your products. The consumer is looking for preformance, quality, usefulness, and then price in today’s economy.
I am a little confused about that statement. What do you mean by (2) batteries? Do you mean that they should package 2 batteries with tools? If that is the case, the majority os toosl sold with batteries do in fact come with two, the saws and grinder are exceptions to that of course.
As to Li-on vs. NiCad, everyone has their opinion. The reality is that there are definite benefits to both chemistries, and that the deciding factor should be the intended use for the tool. If you are gonig to be working in extreme temperature conditions, or work your tools extremely hard, go with NiCad. If you are working in more “normal” conditions, go Li-on. Honestly they are both great, and I have lots of each so that I can plug the appropriate battery into any of my 18v tools to fit my use for any given day.
I was also skeptical about the artificial draw down on the Li-on batteries, as I do not want to lose power when I don’t have to. Having used this feature now hwoever, it is actually really nice. It only affectsyour last screw or two, and just slows down the speed a little bit, so you know to chnage the pack.
I guess it made a believer out of you
You are talking about DC9180 and DC9181.
But on my batteries it says DE9180. What is the diferent. I´ve the nano symbol and it was advertised to be able to recharge 2000 times.
Maybee it is written DE on batteries sold in europe and DC on batteries sold in the states. I bought my machine in Sweden.
And how much performance is expected to be left after 2000 cycles? !00 percent or maybee just 50 percent. Or is it going to downgrade after 2000 cycles?
Bingobelle wrote:
You are talking about DC9180 and DC9181.
DC9180, the compact battery (DC9181) do not have that particular software
But on my batteries it says DE9180. What is the diferent. I´ve the nano symbol and it was advertised to be able to recharge 2000 times.
The DC/DE9180 batteries with yellow side labels have the fade software
Maybee it is written DE on batteries sold in europe and DC on batteries sold in the states. I bought my machine in Sweden.
Yes, there is no difference, just the labels
And how much performance is expected to be left after 2000 cycles? !00 percent or maybee just 50 percent. Or is it going to downgrade after 2000 cycles?
The 2000 charge cycles is a cell manufacture spec if i am not mistaken, so use the battery for what it’s intended purpose is.
One more interesting thing that I do not think anyone have asked before about. Dewalt and makita just to name a few claims their li-ion battery will charge upp to 2000 cycles. But what is really a cycle? They say no memory effect so you can charge them when ever you like to. That´s fine but if you for example charge your battery 10 times and thay are only drained for example 1/3 of a full charge. Will this shorten the battery 10 charges of it cycle life or only 3 charges?
Personaly I only charge them when the battery is empty, do not se any point to put the battery on the charger after a couples of holes drilled. But I think you can see my point. If you have a habit to put the battery on the charger very often ( because no memory effect ) when not needed to, will you be able to have the whole RUNTIME from your batteries?
Bingobelle wrote:
One more interesting thing that I do not think anyone have asked before about. Dewalt and makita just to name a few claims their li-ion battery will charge upp to 2000 cycles. But what is really a cycle? They say no memory effect so you can charge them when ever you like to. That´s fine but if you for example charge your battery 10 times and thay are only drained for example 1/3 of a full charge. Will this shorten the battery 10 charges of it cycle life or only 3 charges?
Personaly I only charge them when the battery is empty, do not se any point to put the battery on the charger after a couples of holes drilled. But I think you can see my point. If you have a habit to put the battery on the charger very often ( because no memory effect ) when not needed to, will you be able to have the whole RUNTIME from your batteries?
Good question, the charge cycles comes from the cell manufacture and that is the industry standard (i am not an electrical engineer or have any advance knowlege of cell cycle times so dont quote me on this) from what i understand is, charge cycle is a cell that is charged to norminal capacity and then discharged under minimal load to it’s low voltage cutoff limits; this would be one charge cycle, when a cell is discharged under heavy load the amount of maximum charge cycle decreases. I will try and get more information on this subject but the quickest way would be to google the topic
I just ordered 4 new DC9180 Li-Ion off internet. Only used DC9096 NiCd before. Does the Li-Ion stay on the charger 24/7 when not in use also? What is the Ah of the nexer version? What does ‘sleep mode’ do exactly & does it automatically come out of that mode when placed in a charger? When did Dewalt use NiMh batteries, maybe the first cordless tool kind?
I found this article interesting, it talks about Dewalt Li-Ion being more safe then standard ones:
http://forum.drc.su/cordless-power-tool-batteries-nicd-vs-nimh-vs-liion-vt4187.html
Sweet!
The DC9180 CAN stay on the charger 24/7, however being a lithium battery their really is no point to leave them on the charger because they won’t discharge nearly as quick as a NiCd.
ah on the DC9180 is 2.2ah
Sleep mode prevents the battery from discharging itself further. They batteries are not shipped charged, and need to be protected from a potentially long shelf life before being used. Once a lithium batteries drops below it’s critical discharge level, it can’t be brought back. People who completely discharge their lithium batteries, and never re-charge them for a long period of time, usually ruin a perfectly good battery.
NiMh are still in use in Europe, and were in the USA a long time ago. I believe Europe banned the use of NiCd cells. Hence the reason they are not in use over there. However, I could be wrong.
Wartex used to be a member on this site. He was a great source for all things batteries. He sorta fell of the planet the last year.
I know that on NiCad batteries the first hour in the charger it charges, then the next 8 hours it does a tune up mode. Does the Li-Ion do the same tune up mode?
http://forum.drc.su/dewalt-nano-14-4v-18v-28v-36v-battery-technology-faq-vt4382.html
Steven wrote:
I know that on NiCad batteries the first hour in the charger it charges, then the next 8 hours it does a tune up mode. Does the Li-Ion do the same tune up mode?
http://forum.drc.su/dewalt-nano-14-4v-18v-28v-36v-battery-technology-faq-vt4382.html
No……….
DEWALTDUDE wrote:
Wartex used to be a member on this site. He was a great source for all things batteries. He sorta fell of the planet the last year.
Nope, I’m still here 🙂
BTW new 36v batteries are 10s2p Samsung IFR18650-11Q (LiFePO4 but very shitty one). I’m officially done with Dewalt batteries. I will continue buying tools but will make my own packs and rebuild old ones. My next project is 5s3p 3.3Ah pack for 18v tools with 18650 A123’s and a 4.5 Ah pack with Sanyos. Those will be for new slide packs because I don’t have the tools (and patience to mess with tiny SMD component soldering) to build a balancer that will fit the stem. I found a cheap plastics supplier and planning to make a “fatpack” that will be the king of all cordless packs 😛
Also, I will soon post my Dewalt shopvac mod – I’m taking DC500 and replacing it’s 120v power supply with a charger – finally a vac that charges batteries in standby.
I also had a go at a 120v AC bandsaw that was running off 3x 36v packs in series, but scapped it because 120 VDC is not a joke when the hands are sweaty. I will also post a vid of a 120v Ridgid shopvac running off DC batteries. Gotta love universal AC motors.
I was thinking of doing a similar mod several weeks ago when I saw the DC500 on clearance at my local big box. I imagined it would not be all that hard to do. Can’t wait to see your mod.
Also, I will soon post my Dewalt shopvac mod – I’m taking DC500 and replacing it’s 120v power supply with a charger – finally a vac that charges batteries in standby.
i really want to hear about this. i was throwing the idea around of converting one of these vacs to a 36v battery use.
DEWALTDUDE wrote:
I was thinking of doing a similar mod several weeks ago when I saw the DC500 on clearance at my local big box. I imagined it would not be all that hard to do. Can’t wait to see your mod.
The biggest problem is adding a 3rd terminal in the battery socket. Vacuum comes with 2-terminal, you need the center pin for charger to work. Also, charger PCB has no holes for mounting, I had to resort to plastic pieces with grroves to hold the board. I also added a 12v cig lighter socket ;D
Does DeWalt make a 14.4 v Li-Ion battery? I’m looking for a 14.4 v drill, but so far all I see are Ni-Cads. I am a weekend DIY’er. I may use the drill a few times a month. Will Ni-Cads suffice for me? When I hear the name Ni-Cad, I think of my old camcorder battery, and having to discharge it fully before recharging (because of the memory effect) and then not having enough battery left when I needed it because it was partially discharged before I started using it. I think you know what I mean. I just don’t want the hassle of having to worry about how much charge is left in the battery.
I will have to shop around, but does anybody have an opinion as to whether to 18V drills are much heavier than the 14.4?
mazdaman wrote:
Does DeWalt make a 14.4 v Li-Ion battery? I’m looking for a 14.4 v drill, but so far all I see are Ni-Cads. I am a weekend DIY’er. I may use the drill a few times a month. Will Ni-Cads suffice for me? When I hear the name Ni-Cad, I think of my old camcorder battery, and having to discharge it fully before recharging (because of the memory effect) and then not having enough battery left when I needed it because it was partially discharged before I started using it. I think you know what I mean. I just don’t want the hassle of having to worry about how much charge is left in the battery.
I will have to shop around, but does anybody have an opinion as to whether to 18V drills are much heavier than the 14.4?
Yes, but it is sold as an aftermarket option. There are not any 14.4v kits packaged with lithium batteries.
kjones wrote:
Does DeWalt make a 14.4 v Li-Ion battery? I’m looking for a 14.4 v drill, but so far all I see are Ni-Cads. I am a weekend DIY’er. I may use the drill a few times a month. Will Ni-Cads suffice for me? When I hear the name Ni-Cad, I think of my old camcorder battery, and having to discharge it fully before recharging (because of the memory effect) and then not having enough battery left when I needed it because it was partially discharged before I started using it. I think you know what I mean. I just don’t want the hassle of having to worry about how much charge is left in the battery.
I will have to shop around, but does anybody have an opinion as to whether to 18V drills are much heavier than the 14.4?
14.4v has been posted on here as a “squeezed out” voltage line. I would look into either the new 20v max line, or the 12v max line depending on your overall needs?
Yes, but it is sold as an aftermarket option. There are not any 14.4v kits packaged with lithium batteries.
I too need to replace at least 6 of my old 18 volt Dewalt nmh batteries and I’d like to get Lithium ions ( and new chargers to charge them. What is the newest model 18 volt lithium batterie and charger ( I want full size packs not limited charge compacts)
DC9180 Battery and DC9310 Charger
I hope this is in the right place I don’t want to thread jack. I am new here. I have the 5 piece set of Dewalt tools with the 18v Batteries LXT. I have bought 5 FIVE batteries for this kit. They will not hold a charge. I was told to start with run them all the way down and then recharge them, then I was told as soon as you feel it starting to loose power put it back on the charger, either way I can charge them up come back a few days or the next day doesn’t matter and they are dead. I have quite a few Dewalt products but I sure am disappointed with this kit. I just bought a new 12v Dewalt drill and have used it quite a bit and it is still charged. What is up with the 18v. Thanks
bergermeister wrote:
I hope this is in the right place I don’t want to thread jack. I am new here. I have the 5 piece set of Dewalt tools with the 18v Batteries LXT. I have bought 5 FIVE batteries for this kit. They will not hold a charge. I was told to start with run them all the way down and then recharge them, then I was told as soon as you feel it starting to loose power put it back on the charger, either way I can charge them up come back a few days or the next day doesn’t matter and they are dead. I have quite a few Dewalt products but I sure am disappointed with this kit. I just bought a new 12v Dewalt drill and have used it quite a bit and it is still charged. What is up with the 18v. Thanks
It sounds like you bought NiCAD batteries. They do not hold their charge well over time. Brand new batteries should hold a good amount of their charge for up to around ten days. Lithium batteries (which are in your 12v kit) hold their charge fr about a year and a half.
Also, do not run the NiCAD batteries all the way down. Charge them when they are slowing down. Running them all the way down can damage the cells.
bergermeister wrote:
I hope this is in the right place I don’t want to thread jack. I am new here. I have the 5 piece set of Dewalt tools with the 18v Batteries LXT. I have bought 5 FIVE batteries for this kit. They will not hold a charge. I was told to start with run them all the way down and then recharge them, then I was told as soon as you feel it starting to loose power put it back on the charger, either way I can charge them up come back a few days or the next day doesn’t matter and they are dead. I have quite a few Dewalt products but I sure am disappointed with this kit. I just bought a new 12v Dewalt drill and have used it quite a bit and it is still charged. What is up with the 18v. Thanks
Where did you buy the batteries? There has been allot of counterfeiting lately.
Hi I have a DeWalt DE9098 18v NiCd 1.3ah Battery Pack
Genuine UK model and CE rated but won’t charge my dc011 radio can any1 help?
Regards cody
P.s I’m in uk