Archived from the Tools In Action forum (Hitachi/Metabo). This thread is read-only.
Hi Folks,
Wayne the mad U..K, Plumber/Builder.
(By the way folks this is my experience of using these tools, I don’t work for a tool company)
I have bought a few tools recently (after a visit from the tool thieves).
I bought the Metabo L.T.X 18v lithium ion Combi drill and Impact driver kit, with 2 of the 3ah power extreme batteries included.
I recommend anyone looking for a battery tool to take a look at Metabo. Right out of the box they feel Professional, and made to last.
Nothing about them feels like its going to wobble loose or stick, and then when you come to use them the quality really starts to show.
There are many drills e.t.c. that make all kinds of claims about battery life and power, but I really have tried most of them and these are just in a league of they’re own.Variable speed is smooth as silk, the pulse function on the combi drill is so handy, no more on off on off the trigger to get a drill started on a slippery tile or a sheet of steel.
And if your apprentice is as thick as two short ends and puts a 5″ holesaw in it on high speed and goes for gold ( Yes they can be that dumb lol) the drill will shut off BEFORE it gets damaged.I have watched other makes with a cut out still smoke.
The L.T.X Impact Driver.This just like the combi drill is just quality.
Three stage power/speed function I recommend starting low and work up as (enter swear words) this thing has enough power to break fasteners and bits easily.
But having said that, you soon get used to it, because again the quality of the switching means its so smooth you instinctively know how much power you’r letting loose and back off accordingly.
Both tools are also easy to use with your gloves ON, no messing about taking one off to switch something over to another setting.
Now for all the plumbers and sparkys out there, stick a self feed Irwin or other self feed bit in the impact driver, drill the hardest joist you can find, and when your wrist is not hurting, the bit is not smoking, and it goes through in no time, like me you’r going to get why buying one of these isn’t just about banging in long screws on you tube.
Batteries. I’ve just added a 4ah battery to my kit, and to be honest the quickest way to explain, is to say Metabo tell the truth.
.The 3ah power extreme batteries were the best I’ve ever used. I thought these tools were great with the 3ah but (swear words again) with the 4ah no kidding folks, its true using these tools has been fantastic and all joking asside after 33 years in the building trade I take some impressing.Well done Metabo. 🙂
One gripe I do have is No belt hook Metabo use a wrist loop.
All the best
Wayne
We just got the drill and looking forward to trying it out. Seems to be very good quality.
Which one did you get Guys? 🙂
Good question. Dan has been playing with it and using it, so not sure. I am heading over there tomorrow, so I will find out.
The only reason I ask, is dependant upon which one it is, there are many features and attachments available.
One flaw with the range, is these do not fit on all the range.
Also in the case of the torque multiplier, it is so powerful at 296 Nm of torque, (that’s 2619.6 lb feet of torque in U.S) that they had to put lugs on the body of the drill where it clamps on to prevent it twisting in your hands.
These lugs are not on older model drills, so anyone who wants to make the L.T.X into a torque monster, should ask the right questions.
I have researched this in depth, and I believe this makes the Metabo L.T.X quick with this attachment the most powerful battery drill on the planet to date.
Grandchildren are gods way of giving you revenge on your kids. ( You get all the fun bits without the sleepless nights, and best of all you can pass them back when they smell) LOL 🙂
Best regards
Wayne
I like it
I can’t seem to find the Metabo BS18LTX-X3 for sale in the U.S. Might be another one of those tools that doesn’t make it stateside. That torque multiplier could be a real game changer. It may be a better choice as a grey market tool than some other EU tool offerings though.
I am not a one manufacturer user but I have found Metabo make a great tool, and do have a U.S base.
But you are not alone in finding them hard to find over the pond.
I know of one U.K supplier www.toolstop.co.uk who ship them world wide but this is not an advertisement and I do not work for them or any other tool company.
I just share information and try and help folks make an informed choice.
If you have a specific question I can’t guarantee I will get the answer but will give it a bloomin good try. 🙂
Wayne Burgess wrote:
I know of one U.K supplier www.toolstop.co.uk who ship them world wide but this is not an advertisement and I do not work for them or any other tool company.
With grey market tools, there is always the fun you have with adapting to their power requirements. Converters at the amperage power tools use are pricey. With cordless tools there is less problems as often you can just purchase an American charger. Sometimes this will come around and bite you though, as sometimes they use different batteries as well.
I’m looking into trying my hand a getting a few tools that are not available here. I really want a ProTool PDC 18-4 TEC hammerdrill. Some of the ProTool saws look interesting as well. I always wonder what a riving knife would be like on a good framing saw. I could imagine it would make ripping framing lumber a good bit safer.
There’s no doubt Festool and Protool are quality tools just don’t expect the brute force of some other drills.
The plunge cut circular saw and track of Festool is a precision tool for when you want a top class accurate cut.
Great tools but boy oh boy get ready to dig deep in your wallet. 😀
Wayne Burgess wrote:
There’s no doubt Festool and Protool are quality tools just don’t expect the brute force of some other drills.
The plunge cut circular saw and track of Festool is a precision tool for when you want a top class accurate cut.
Great tools but boy oh boy get ready to dig deep in your wallet. 😀
I have some Festool and I really like what I have. I find the T-18 drill to be pretty potent, It wont match a 28v drill but it will hold its own, and I really like the electric clutch. Protools are NOT available here. 🙁 and the fact that most of the rest of the world runs on 50 Hz. unlike the 60 Hz. we run here in the states, really makes them impractical to convert power for them, for grey market use. With the cost of converters/inverters being cost prohibitive. I have been tempted to find myself a grey market generator. Even though it would probably be illegal, I would love to bring a set of 220v 50Hz tools to a jobsite just so people would quit trying to borrow my tools and plug things into my generator when I’m not looking.
I really want the PDC 18-4 TEC for that 3800 RPM top speed. I could use that in more than a few applications.
Interesting fact, some Hilti, and a lot of Mafell saws will work on Festool tracks. I really like using my Hilti cordless circular saw on the track for trimming deck ends and the like.
Speaking of power, I’ve always wondered what type of plug they use on tools in the UK for 110v? This info is not easily found on the internet.
The plug on U.K 110v is a beast of a 3 pin and I just tried to import a picture and failed like a tortoise mating with a bowler hat. LOL
Its a three pin system and we have transformers to step down from household 240v supply.Or we use generators on site.
It is hard to find 110v chargers for battery tools though.
Silverline 868864 110 Volt Plug If you look this up on amazon it should show you a picture of the male end of a 110v U.K plug. 😀
Wayne Burgess wrote:
Silverline 868864 110 Volt Plug If you look this up on amazon it should show you a picture of the male end of a 110v U.K plug. 😀
Thanks for taking the time to reply, They look significantly safer then what we use here in the U.S. I often wish we here in the states were not so stubborn and would be willing to change to clearly better standards. I can’t believe we still have not widely adopted the metric system. You all in the U.K. seem to have the best of both worlds.
How many amps are is your standard 110v service? Here in the U.S. older houses usually have 15 Amps. while new construction and commercial are most often 20 Amp.
Our supply is 240v
To use 110v tools we have to use a transformer.
A domestic supply typically consists of a large cable connected to a service head, a sealed box containing the main supply fuse. This will typically have a value from 40–100A. Separate live and neutral cables (‘tails’) go from here to an electricity meter, and often an earth conductor too. More tails proceed from the meter into the consumer side of the installation and into a consumer unit/distribution board, or in some cases to a Henley block (a splitter box used in low voltage electrical engineering) and thence to more than one distribution board. The distribution board (aka fusebox) contains one or more main switches and an individual fuse or miniature circuit breaker (MCB) for each final circuit. Modern installations may alternatively use devices combining overcurrent and additional residual current protection in place of fuses and MCBs or provide additional protection through the inclusion of one or more residual current device.
Generally our transformers are used to reduce the risk of electrocution with 1.5 and 3 kVA transformers having 1 or 2 16amp 110v outlets.
5kVa normally have 2 x16amp and 1x 32amp 110v outlets.
There are other variants but this represents a simple example. 🙂
Just watched Eric and Dan’s you tube video of the Metabo L.T.X hammer drill, and am shocked that Metabo sent them a lesser tool than we get over on this side of the pond.
It seems in the U.S you would have to buy a bare tool from over here to get the same performance and features, and that sucks like a swamp full of leaches.
I’ve got to get hands on the Milwaukee fuel and some others now to see if it works the other way, or if it is just the U.S.A getting the shit end of the stick.
Different how Wayne?
The drill the guys tested did not have the impulse function that mine has, and either I am as mad as a badger or it sounded down on revs on high speed compared to mine.
It may be the sound not coming over the same, but it seems slower than mine on the high setting for sure.
The removable chuck option is on the L.T.X quick, this is another model and it has no hammer action.
But the latest version of the quick does have the lugs on the drill so you can fit many attachments to it.
What exactly is the “impulse function’?
The drill will automatically go stop start stop start from zero on the trigger to pulsing on and off very quickly as you pull the trigger in.
This means you can start a drill off on tiles or polished metal with a lot less chance of skidding across the surface and scratching it.
It’s one of those things that once you have it you never want to be without it.
Another use is when you have a screw with hardly any guts in it where it has a head that’s been partly stripped out, you put the drill on impulse in reverse and it takes out the screw in most cases.
It also gives you a bit more grunt in reverse if a drill bit gets a bit choked up when you are pulling it out of the work.
Sounds pretty sweet. I’d like to give that a try. I’ve never used a drill that offered that.
The trouble is the drill the guys got from Metabo did not have this function and it seems it is not on tools sold in the U.S.A for some reason.
I am trying to find out why but as yet have not had a reply from Metabo.
We heard the impulse feature is awesome. I am not sure if they offer it over here. Same thing with the quick chuck. You guys have a quick chuck that will come off and turn into an impact. Not over here. The quick chuck here is anything, but quick. I watched a video of someone by you with a quick chuck and it is night and day.
The quick is another drill all together and has no hammer action.
My LTX hammer has impulse.
But the L.T.X Quick is a drill driver with no hammer that has the quick chuck and accepts all the attachments.
Then there is my fave tool that I bought the L.T.X Impact driver which is just a beast.
I have to say I am interested how the Hammer drill shapes up and compares to the fuel.
I have had a reply from Metabo who say it is a patent issue and impulse will be on the L.T.X range later this year.
It takes a little longer for me to get information from Metabo because I have to translate the question into German and then back again when they reply.
It seems patent law is slower in the U.S so that may explain why things happen the way they do.
Slow is an understatement. It takes forever, at least it seems like it. I am curious about the comparison between the Fuel and the Metabo also. So far I do like the set up on the fuel much better, but I do have to say the Metabo does go through some serious wood and doesn’t even blink
The problem over here with Milwaukee is getting hold of them.
Either you can’t get something at all like the taper shaped wood bits that look awsome by the way.
Or if you can get something, you pay megga bucks for it unless you wait an age for prices to drop, or find a one off bargain on e-bay.
The other thing seems to be many suppliers have fired them off, saying they are real bad over here on the support side of things.
Ohio Power Tool ships international. I’m not sure, but I imagine that if you ordered it from the United States a US warranty would apply. http://www.ohiopowertool.com/
Thank you 😀
The 5 year warranty says it applies only to tools purchased in the United States. I would think that buying it from Ohio Power Tool would qualify as such. I’ve dealt with Ohio Power Tool before and their customer service is great. I typically use CPO Milwaukee but they don’t ship international. 🙁
I will keep hunting, normally it costs me more in shipping than the item.
Wayne that would suck. A tool freak who can only hear what cool products are out there, but can’t get your hands on them. Is this purgatory?
Eric J wrote:
Wayne that would suck. A tool freak who can only hear what cool products are out there, but can’t get your hands on them. Is this purgatory?
That is how I feel a lot of the time, no Protool, can’t get a regular circular saw with a riving knife, no flip saws, or combo miter/table saws, Festool is holding out some tools from us, like that funky saw table that you can mount one of their track saws in. When you find out what is available in the rest of the world it kind of seems like we are the ones being deprived sometimes…
If you can take looking at websites in other languages check out what is offered internationally.
http://www.protool-online.com/ is in English
http://www.bosch-pro…owerkzeuge.html
http://www.mafell.de/index.php?id=16
Even our supposedly homegrown companies offer tools elsewhere in the world that they don’t offer here. look up the Dewalt D27112, DW394, DW876, and DW721,
Sometimes makes you feel like a bee banging its head on a sweetshop window.You can see what you want you just can’t get to it.LOL
Your right. It sucks seeing cool tools you just can’t get your hands on. We went to a show and talked with a Metabo guy. He was telling us about all the cool stuff they have in Europe and don’t offer in the states.
That annoys the heck out of me.It should be the same everywhere,not just some things available in one place.Or only available in U.S or U.K voltage and not both.
You can’t buy those big hawg drills over here either.
Wayne Burgess wrote:
You can’t buy those big hawg drills over here either.
Wow, What do you guys use for drilling big holes? I just skimmed through a couple online UK tool websites and it would appear your Milwaukee tools and the U.S. version of Milwaukee tools have quite a few differences in their line ups. I don’t think we have any circular saws in common.
Now you guys might get what I mean when i say we have many things we are forced to do differently.
That is one of the reasons I think we get shorter warranty over here, I see guys all the time going at drilling holes you blokes would use a hawg to drill and they are using an 18v.
Don’t get me wrong we have right angle drills, but nothing as big as the hawg tools you guys have.They said at one time it was because over here we did not build using timber for walls we used bricks for virtually every wall and we use slate, stone and thick tiles on our roofs not shingles.
But these days timber framed buildings are much more widespread yet still no hawg tools.
Wayne Burgess wrote:
Don’t get me wrong we have right angle drills, but nothing as big as the hawg tools you guys have.They said at one time it was because over here we did not build using timber for walls we used bricks for virtually every wall and we use slate, stone and thick tiles on our roofs not shingles.
But these days timber framed buildings are much more widespread yet still no hawg tools.
I would have been stopped dead in my tracks more than a few times if it wasn’t for my Hole Hawg and large spade handle drills. Wasn’t any WAY a cordless drill could have handled some of those holes.
I wish Milwaukee made a more traditional spade handle drill, but they don’t. Just the big t-handle drills.
Conductor562 wrote:
I wish Milwaukee made a more traditional spade handle drill, but they don’t. Just the big t-handle drills.
You don’t think the 1600 series are traditional spade handled drills???
[External image (www.milwaukeetool.com), not copied]
Well, I guess traditional really isn’t the word I’m looking for. I want something with a multi-position spade handle, variable speed, and I’m not crazy about the long goofy top handle. Everyone except Milwaukee offers something that offers these.
Conductor562 wrote:
Well, I guess traditional really isn’t the word I’m looking for. I want something with a multi-position spade handle, variable speed, and I’m not crazy about the long goofy top handle. Everyone except Milwaukee offers something that offers these.
Yes, but, with the exception of Makitas DS4000 all the other ones feel like toys compared to the Milwaukees,
(Shamefully jumping into an old topic for my first post here)…
Been perving over the Metabo LTX drills and impacts, found it hard to find many discussions/impartial reviews, and non of the lads I work with or anyone I meet on jobs know anything about them, really small market share in the UK it seems. I is in the trades an’that, messing about with cordless drills day-in day-out, looking for a new kit to hold up to a wee bit abuse.
Wayne, if you’re still there, do you have any experience of Hilti drills to compare Metabos to? I’ve always held Hilti up as the best but these Metabos look very tasty indeed, but nowhere stocks them so I can’t have a look before buying.
Main thing that winds me up about the quality of most cordless drills now is the amount of runout (wobble) on the chuck. I expect an expensive drill to be pretty much spot-on. Any feedback on how the Metabo LTX drills fair in this department?
And how are they in terms of ergonomics and balance, do they feel nice in the hand for long usage? Little bit skeptical of the pistol-like handle instead of the more common T-handle. Comfortable feel obviously important for extended use every day.
(And hello forummers, nice forum)
Hello BigYin,
First of all welcome to the forum.
I use my LTX every day and the lads on fleet with Hilti have all been amazed by my gear.
The feel is solid and like I said for a pro they are just amazing I am not so sure the D.I.Y user would get the use out of the tools they are for working all day every day.
As far as chuck wobble there is none at all not even the slightest bit of lateral movement,so even tiny drills for very accurate work are no problem at all.
The smoothness of them,the lack of vibration in your hand when you do a 12 hour day plus drive to site and back you wont get that twinge in your wrist where a badly balanced drill has had you tensing the muscle to compensate.
I think unless you need one of the more specialist tools Hilti make that Metabo don’t then it is a no brainer and the Metabo is better in my opinion.
Just be careful with the impact driver I think it is too powerful for joiners/carpenters and the Max 12 pro is more than powerful enough for site work unless you are driving 3 inch and 4 inch 10’s and 12’s or above all day in which case the 18v impact will do that no problem at all.
I like to think I do not pamper to one manufacturer and don’t conform to the view that one brand makes the best tool in every part of the range but up to now all the LTX that I have bought have out performed my workmates tools side by side on real world dusty tough busy site work.
My only niggle is they do not have a belt hook.
Best I have ever used by a country mile. 😀
Hello there Wayne, wow that’s fantastic feedback cheers, you sure you don’t work for Metabo (wink wink)!! Only kidding, great to get some ‘real world’ views on how they fair for trade work. Been getting the feeling they are a bit special, looking at the specs and videos and the few sparse reviews I could find, but nowhere to have a look.
I tend to think pretty much any reasonable drill feels fine for DIY (no offense to any DIY people reading, no snobbery here, I know a couple of DIY guys who are better than some tradesmen I know) but good balance and feel make one heck of a difference when you’re using one for hours every day.
So these Metabo’s sound the biz. I’m amazed how light they are on the specs actually for having 100nm torque, usually only get near to that with Hilti’s which are bloody heavy frankly, even the new lithium’s (perfect balance though). Not sure I’m convinced they can be that strong at that weight but I wait to be proved wrong.
Very pleased to hear about no chuck wobble, seen so many new drills from ‘trade’ brands with a silly amount of wobble. Even looked at the new Hilti lithium combi’s recently and even a few of them weren’t great, not terrible by any means but not what I expect from a £400 drill, maybe standards slipping?! my trusty old boat-anchor Hilti ni-mh cordless is absolutely perfect.
You know what you’re on about with the tiny drills in accurate work thing, that and when running long lags is when the wobble really pees me off. Dewalt is the worst for it that I’ve seen, crazy amount of runout.
Thanks for the heads-up what you say about the 18v Impact for carpentry, I do quite a lot of first-fix so be good for that and get the wee one for the finishing.
Been on the verge of forking out for a six or seven piece Metabo kit for a while now, in light of your glowing praise I think I’m gonna take the plunge and hope for the best. Only other option was Hilti really but they’re crazy money and not convinced their cordless stuff is amazing enough to justify the price. Don’t like Dewalt. Makita good but dubious batteries. Bosch good stuff but doesn’t really grab me. Hope Metabo fits the bill. Bit worried about their after sales service, their customer service line person was completely hopeless the other week, but I’ll take a chance, Hitler took a chance and it didn’t do him any harm!
Cheers Wayne, big help, will maybe post a follow-up once I’ve used the tools for a while (if it’s not too cheeky to resurrect the thread).
Oh yeah and the no belt hook thing, that’s been putting me off a bit. I’ve got a holster but they’re a bit shit compared to hooks. I just found out about ‘Monster Hook’ tool holders, google it, gotta be worth a shot, look perfect for a drill without a belt hook.
Dan.
Great! Now I’ve got 2 Brit’s to try and decipher. Just kidding fella’s : ) I love the British spin on things and being friends with Wayne somehow makes me feel smarter and more cultured than the other people in the West Virginia hollows. Welcome to the forum Dan!
Re: Wayne & BigYin
What do you guys think of ProTool? I hear even less about them then I do Metabo. They are totally not available here in the states and the Festool that we have available here is some IMHO pretty impressive stuff. The electric clutch on their drills is very innovative.
my experience is of Festool rather than Protool but they are very similar indeed.
Protool are o.k in a workshop environment but would never take one on a rough tough building site. 🙂
Wayne Burgess wrote:
my experience is of Festool rather than Protool but they are very similar indeed.
Protool are o.k in a workshop environment but would never take one on a rough tough building site. 🙂
Why not? I take my Festools all the time and never had a problem. From what I’ve been told Protool is Festools more durable “professional” line. Have I been misinformed?
Yeah I thought the Protool stuff was supposed to be really heavy duty site worthy tools. Festool for the workshop, Protool for site with the inevitable drops of ladders etc.
Would’ve loved to buy Protool but crazy expensive, almost £500 for one cordless drill I think (with all the attachments)! Would love one though, I’ve read reviews with people saying it’s hands down the best drill made to date. Love all the attachments too. Metabo seem to be the only ones offering something similar, just not as refined.
Not made me mind up on Metabo yet. Came across a terrible review of the drill on Ultimatehandyman forum, really slated it, and the customer service seems not to be the best.
I’m now debating whether to go Panasonic or Metabo. Panasonic are supposed to be amazing drills. The idea of the dust and water protection sounds good too. Anyone have any experience? Panasonic or Metabo, which is best?
Last year I had a shot of a mates Panasonic 15.6 Nimh drill, loved it, felt real top quality, nice to use all day. Wish I’d bought one actually, a local cash and carry warehouse place was selling them for £80 with 2 batts charger and case.