Archived from the Tools In Action forum (Pub Talk). This thread is read-only.
Before I begin this post, let me state that I’m not trying to start any sort of political debate. Please keep things civil, while I suspect that many people who visit these forums are gun owners (I know quite a few are current or former military and law enforcement), I understand why some people feel differently. I’m posting here because, frankly, firearms are tools and responsible gun owners seem to inundate the trades and blue collar society in general.
Anyway, last month I bought a revolver I’d been wanting for years. I posted about it in the following thread but decided to create this thread so as not to further hijack the below one.
Today I bought another revolver: https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/taurus-856. It was admittedly an impulse buy, but having owned a Model 85 in the ’90s and a Model 617 in the early 2000’s, I knew that Taurus makes good revolver that offer substantial bang for the buck (pun intended). The 856 is essentially a slightly larger, six-shot version of the five-shot 85, and my next purchases will, as always, be a few boxes of ammo, good holsters, speed loaders, and speed strips.
I’m nearing 20 years of service as an Army Infantryman. Like many of my peers I’m a “gun guy”, but unlike quite a few, I’m not the “tacticool” sort. My Beretta 92F was made in 1988 and lacks any sort of rail system or optic, the only semi-auto military-style rifle I have is a Yugoslavian M48/56 SKS, and the most tactical firearm I have is probably the custom Mossberg 590 I bought while Clinton was still in office. My AR15, FN-FAL, HK91, and MAK-90 are all long gone and I’ve never owned a short-barreled rifle or suppressor.
Now, I won’t list every firearm I still own as most will succumb to floodwaters in the near future, but I’ve grown to appreciate the simple and time-proven types. Revolvers, slide-action shotguns, and military bolt-action rifles are simply more fun to me these days. I’ll still carry semi-auto pistols, but usually prefer having a .32 as a backup to a .38 or .357. Glocks have never appealed to me (a bias I’ll probably have to get over if I pursue a career in law enforcement), and my mantra has always been to carry with a round chambered and at least two reloads, whether it’s 46 rounds of 9mm for my Beretta, 22 rounds of .32 for the Kel-Tec, or 18 rounds of .44 SPL for the Model 29.
I spent years foregoing the purchase of new guns, spending a lot of money over the past 5+ years on tools instead, but my final months in the Army will be spent rebuilding my collection. I’ll update this thread as I buy from licensed dealers, since the Form 4473s will be kept on file regardless. There’s something about knowing that you have the equipment to defend yourself and loved ones, but equipment is just part of self-defense. Training, vigilance, and having the social awareness to avoid risky situations are equally important.
Looks like an awesome gun. I am stuck in between. I like the high tech tactical ones but more to go wrong or get in the way. When it comes down to it, I am on board, simple is the way to go. I am not going to give it away, but going to get something cool in a couple of months. Yes, it’s more a long barrel and tactical, but cool in my book. After that, i want to get a Benelli Shotgun. However you have me looking more into the revolvers. There is just something about them that is awesome. I also want an old west rifle. The Henry’s look nice.
The Henry’s do look nice, the PX had a Mare’s Leg model when I bought the S&W. I only own the Henry US Survival (aka AR-7). I do have a Winchester Model 94 in .45 Colt, and had one in .30-30 before it was stolen. A Ruger Vaquero and Stoeger Coach Gun round out my Cowboy Action guns if I ever decide to get into that scene.
Eric – TIA wrote:
On 9/29/2021 at 4:05 PM, Eric – TIA said:Looks like an awesome gun. I am stuck in between. I like the high tech tactical ones but more to go wrong or get in the way. When it comes down to it, I am on board, simple is the way to go. I am not going to give it away, but going to get something cool in a couple of months. Yes, it’s more a long barrel and tactical, but cool in my book. After that, i want to get a Benelli Shotgun. However you have me looking more into the revolvers. There is just something about them that is awesome. I also want an old west rifle. The Henry’s look nice.
The tactical looking firearms are very popular, and when set up properly by a trained and experienced owner, they are very effective at doing what they do. I’ll probably get another AR15 at some point for the same reason so many other veterans do–it’s second nature for us to effectively engage a target, reload under stress, and perform immediate action, among other things, with an AR15-style weapon. After all, we train with them our entire careers and many of us have used them in combat situations overseas.
A few things I’ve considered as my tastes in guns have evolved are a) historical significance, b) practicality for self and/or home defense, c) cost/trade value, and d) legal considerations. For example, most of my rifles are military surplus bolt actions, with designs dating from the late-1800s into the 1940s and hence, historically significant if not exceptionally valuable. For self and home defense I like having a primary pistol or revolver, backup pistol or revolver, and either my police surplus riot gun or the Coach Gun, along with a few reloads for each. Nothing fancy, and nothing that will over-penetrate. If I stumble across a really good deal I buy it, such as my $100 M1911, and if someone is willing to make a trade that is mutually beneficial I strongly consider it. Finally, I look at what is or may be targeted by politicians and media (recent examples include bump stocks and pistol braces) as well as how a prosecutor may use my choice of firearms against me if I ever need to use one in self-defense or if another firearms-related criminal charge is filed (brandishing, etc. I’ve seen how skewed the “justice” system is in brandishing and illegally concealed weapons cases and don’t want any part of that.
When I received my concealed carry permit years ago and began regularly carrying the Para-Ordnance Tac-Four inside-the-waistband, I changed my wardrobe significantly…shorts/pants a size too big, tucked in undershirt, and loose Hawaiian shirt (the pattern helps to camouflage printing) or long coat. I bought the Model 19 while shopping for a J-Frame snub-nose and found that my frame can easily conceal a 4″ barrel K-Frame. If and when I carry the N-Frame Model 29, I’ll have to find a good holster and clothing combination for it. As for the far more concealable 856, I’m holster shopping this afternoon and may pick up another speed loader and some speed strips.
Yes, I like the historical part of the weapons also. I did the same when I have my conceal permit. I went with a M&P Shield only because the M&P was my first gun and feel comfortable with it. I wanted to go with an inside waistband also but was to lazy to go shipping and get new cloth.
Your right on about the justice system and your right about taking all that into consideration. Always want to be safe in every aspect if it’s self defense or doing the right thing so things don’t pile up.
Okay, I guess gun types don’t frequent these forums. 🙂
But…I bought a Glock 17 today. It came with three 17 round magazines and the store was out of additional ones (I really wanted to have four mags with one in the chamber for 69 total), so I bought a 33 round mag and the Glock Combat Holster. Now I just need to find more ammo. Carried a .45, .38, and .32 this past weekend, and probably going with 9mm, .38, and .44 this weekend.
No I wish we could get more gun people here. I have been getting into them and could always use the knowledge of others. That’s awesome about the Glock. Not sure if it’s hard to get ammo by you, but it’s a little scarce by me. I went out to Moab Utah and built two guns. When they get shipped back here, I will take a picture and upload it.
I kept a G23 for a friend years ago and convinced myself I didn’t like Glocks. After getting the G17 yesterday and doing dry fire drills, I’ve reconsidered. Once my time in the Army is done, I’m considering a couple of law enforcement agencies. Both issue Glock 17s, so I wanted to have something to train with prior to the Academy (although over 25 years of gun-handling, a degree in Criminal Justice, and 20+ years in the military should give some kind of edge).
Ammo is hit or miss. Fort Belvoir, Quantico Marine Corps Base, and my local gun shop usually have certain calibers in stock, but I’ve taken to carrying jacketed ball ammunition in lieu of the personal defense hollow points I carried in the ’90s to ’00s.
Yeah, I think you have a ton of training, especially compared to me. Let me know what you think when you take it to the range. Just curious. I have heard that a lot about Glocks but then people try them and love them.
Being a left-handed person, I’m used to having to work around designs such as the M1911, but the Glock should be intuitive for me (as I usually carry revolvers), given its lack of manual safety. I can’t wait to take this to the range, and may get another before long…maybe the G26 so I can use the G17 mags in a pinch but have a more concealable firearm.
Speaking of which, I may get to the courthouse today to submit my concealed carry permit renewal.
Loaded the mags earlier after buying 100 more rounds of ammo, and contemplating open carry over the weekend. It’s a chore loading the 33 round mag, and it looks ridiculous in the pistol, but it should be a good spare for hotel stays and such, along with the Winchester 1200 Riot gun. I really like the “BOOM!” of a magnum revolver, but can’t argue with the potential of 52 9mm rounds in three mags (counting a chambered round) versus six with two speed loaders.
Concealed – I am in Illinois and it took us all most 16 months to get my card. It is a joke by use. Hopefully your doesn’t take too long.
Open Carry – Can you open carry because of the state you live in or because of the military and when you are on base?
M1911 – Do you like that gun? Is that issued or did you buy that?
Yes, I want to get a revolver. Just something about them that appeals to me but your right with having 52 rounds compared to 6.
Virginia state law allows a maximum of 45 days for concealed handgun permit processing. I’ve heard that some courts use almost all of that time lately, but my first permit took maybe three weeks.
Virginia allows open carry…I carried from the age of around 18, but I’m honestly not a big fan as I feel it makes me a target. In the ’90s I was often asked to leave businesses and had police respond numerous times for exercising my right to carry. Besides that hassle, I’m constantly on edge when others are around, you just don’t know what someone might do (try to grab your weapon, etc.).
My M1911 was purchased for $100 from a fellow Soldier that had to sell his firearms. Some units have used them since then, but the Beretta M9 replaced the M1911 in 1985 or so, and the Beretta is currently being replaced by the Sig Sauer M17.
I’m travelling now, with all three new to me firearms. The .44 with two speed loaders full of .44 SPL and two speed strips loaded with .44 Magnum; the. 38 with a speed loader and some loose rounds, and the G17 with 84 rounds of 9mm. Should be covered at the project house in the middle of nowhere this weekend.
So, the .44 stayed in the room I sleep in while I was at the house, and in the truck when I had to go out. The .38 was pocket carried most of the time, and the G17 was kept in its holster but mostly carried in my jacket pocket. Today was a bit nicer, so I open carried the G17 while working, mostly burning brush but also carrying ice shield up the ladder.
I am in Illinois so no open carry. I am going to have to visit the range and try some of these you have. We have one place by us where you can rent different guns to try them out. Now I just have to find time to get there.
Open carry is a nice option at times, especially for outdoorsmen, and it sucks that some states don’t allow it. It also sucks that Shall Issue concealed carry permits aren’t a nation wide standard. If you are legally able to possess a firearm and acquire the requisite training, why not issue a permit without requiring proof of need or other nonsense?
Renting guns is a good option…I had a range near me that did so (to include automatic weapons), but admittedly I have never rented a firearm. Selecting a carry handgun is very subjective based on personal needs and preference. I’m comfortable with a revolver and a couple of speed loaders (got my second Pachmayr for the .38 over the weekend), but it felt natural carrying the full sized G17 over the weekend, which is easily concealable with a long jacket.
That’s funny you say that about a national standard. I was just talking about that yesterday with a guy. Don’t get me started, I could go on and on, lol.
In my opinion, the problem is that less gun-friendly states are affected by large urban centers controlling the political agenda of states. I wont disparage either of the two main political parties here, as this isn’t a political site, but suffice to say that while the majority of, say, New York’s geographical area is populated by gun owners, the majority of its population live in urban centers (NYC in particular). I have friends from Upstate New York, and Army buddies who have been stationed at Fort Drum, NY. Outside of big cities like NYC, Buffalo, and Rochester, most of the state is rural. As a native Virginian I see the same thing happening. Travel the I-81 corridor out west, drive 30 minutes or so away from the I-95 and I-66 corridors in Northern Virginia, or get out of the Newport News/Virginia Beach area municipalities, and you’re likely to see someone open carrying a pistol, standing on the side of the highway with their shotgun during hunting season, or going about their business while likely carrying a legally concealed handgun. The new flipper house is located about 30 minutes from Fort Lee and hunters are constantly driving by the house in their annoyingly loud pickups with equally loud mud tires.
Guns kill people, though, much like the SUV killed people in Waukesha, and as such responsible gun owners should be regulated by their state governments until, and if, the federal government can further regulate them [sarc off]. Speaking as a potential future cop, the scary thing is that some law enforcement officers know little about gun laws. Before enlisting, I was perusing a local thrift shop when the off-duty Richmond Sheriff’s Deputy working security approached me told me to put my legally carried .357 in my car, telling me he could arrest me as it’s illegal to carry a handgun in certain areas. I just looked it up and the law is still on the books (emphasis added): https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter7/section18.2-287.4/
Ҥ 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol that expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock…in the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, or Virginia Beach or in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, or Prince William.”
In short the Deputy was right, to a degree. Also, I can’t fault him for lacking experience in enforcement of the law, as Richmond and other larger population centers (to include all of those listed in the above section of the Code) have separate police departments, with the Sheriff’s Offices being mostly relegated to court security, corrections operations, and serving subpoenas. My 7-shot Taurus Model 617 did not meet the criteria for an offense, nor have any of the numerous handguns I’ve owned until the recent Glock purchase (if I wanted to walk around with the 33-round mag in the pistol for some reason).
Next month I might buy an inexpensive but quality AR-15 (I’ll have to do some research, but hear decent things about he S&W M&P 15 series). I have dozens of magazines, can sign for the latest Army-issued optic for demonstration purposes to mate with my prototype night vision system, and have twenty years of experience with the M14A4, M4, and M4A1, not to mention the post-ban Bushmaster I used to own and even the XM177E2 I maintained in an arms room years ago.
Love this thread. Being current law enforcement I’ll get back to you guys on what I own with some pics!
T75R wrote:
On 11/25/2021 at 4:19 PM, T75R said:Love this thread. Being current law enforcement I’ll get back to you guys on what I own with some pics!
Sounds great! I’ll upload some pics myself before long.
Speaking of law enforcement I really miss my police surplus S&W Model 19. I still have the Winchester 1200 Riot that looks like it was issued to a supervisor due to its lack of wear. I want another Model 19 but am torn between looking for a decent used gun and buying a new production version. The Model 29 is nice but I need a shoulder holster for daily carry due to the size and weight.
Sig Sauer P226 for my on duty firearm. Very reliable. Can’t leave the station without it lol
Sweet, I have heard good things about the P226. I get to complete my paperwork today for the guns I built out in Utah, so once I get them, I will take a picture.
I’ve yet to own or even shoot a SIG Sauer, despite currently serving in a position that gives me access to the M17 and M18, which were developed from the P320 to replace the Army’s aging M9 (Beretta M92FS) and M11 (SIG Sauer P228) pistols.
Virginia State Police issued the P229 from ’97-’04, as a gun guy who worked in a dealership where a Trooper would check our state inspection logs monthly, I was curious about that and read back then that they were ordering both .357 SIG and .40 S&W barrels, with the intent to switch barrels (and calibers) as they wore out. Checking the Wikipedia page, it seems that they stuck with .357 SIG, adopting the P229R in 2004 and the P320 in 2018, both in that caliber.
During the 2005 Inaugural events, I chatted with a US Park Police officer who carried an H&K P7, in my opinion an oddity for American LEOs, but for the most part Glock and SIG Sauer seem to have cornered the market on law enforcement service weapons. While I still need to train with the G17, I will say that the grip angle doesn’t bother me as much as it used to, and dry fire drills have proven that the sights align for me almost as instinctively as the 92F or my revolvers. I do have to consciously think about what I’m carrying, but the muscle memory is developing to where I can tell by the feel of the grip where I need to aim (if that makes sense, I’m not a firearms instructor by any means, but have noticed a tendency to be able to effectively draw and engage targets in a smooth manner).
I’ve already spoken to the wife about future training if I decide to go into law enforcement. Jiu-jitsu or another grappling martial art training is a must, and I plan to use my military retirement to help pay for addition self-defense and especially firearms tactics courses. Twenty years in the Infantry have made me confident that while that I can hold my own on the ground, I need to train away from my go to submissions, which are usually choke holds.
In the end, whether I’m Mr. Home Depot next year or in an Academy, I want to be “that guy” that never has to resort to violence even while being prepared to do so. If I become a cop I want to be capable of defending myself and others but retire without ever forcibly subduing someone or drawing a weapon outside of training.
Eric – TIA wrote:
10 hours ago, Eric – TIA said:Sweet, I have heard good things about the P226. I get to complete my paperwork today for the guns I built out in Utah, so once I get them, I will take a picture.
Sounds good. I haven’t built anything yet, but may eventually do so. I also want to get into reloading, especially for the .44 MAG. It would be nice to have a custom load between .44 SPL and .44 MAG, kind of like a +P.
While in a meeting this morning, I sorted my wallet and saw that it’s been 31 days since I bought the G17. So, off to the Exchange, where I considered adding a G19 or G26 to the collection before realizing how close it is to Christmas. On to cheaper guns, and an olive green Ruger Wrangler .22 Long Rifle revolver caught my eye at $230. Tempting, and perhaps next month’s purchase, but I wanted to try something a bit more practical for concealed carry. The Ruger LCP II and S&W Bodyguard both caught my eye, at $380 and $360 respectively. Almost $200 less than the Gen 5 Glocks ($555) and they are both in .380 ACP, a caliber for which I have ammunition but no longer have firearms to shoot it. Still, a bit pricey.
So I decided to take a gamble with a new (to me) company and shelled out $230 for the SCCY CPX-2. Reviews are mixed, but I have a number of other handguns to carry should this prove less than reliable. In fact, I’m already considering a lime green grip module just for the heck of it. We’ll see if this was a good buy or not, but in the late ’90s I purchased a pistol from another relatively unproven budget pistol manufacturer located a bit south of SCCYs facility. The no-frills Kel-Tec P11 is still going strong, and the only issue I’ve had with the P32 purchased around 2004 is the mainspring breaking after five years of near daily pocket carry. Let’s hope this SCCY proves itself.
I did notice (and probably knew but forgot at some point) that Virginia concealed carry permit holders are exempt from the one handgun per 30 days limit. I can’t afford to buy more than one a month, but it’s nice to know I won’t have to count the days. The G26 is a definite purchase in the near future, followed perhaps by a .380 and a .40 of some sort. If and when a S&W Model 19 pops up in the Exchange or for a good price locally, I’ll be buying one of those as well. The Exchange has competitive prices, but the key benefit to shopping there is the lack of sales tax.
The SCCY CPX-2 looks like a nice handgun. Always like the black body with the silver upper. That S&W Bodyguard looks like a nice one also. Might have to check those out.
Eric – TIA wrote:
20 hours ago, Eric – TIA said:The SCCY CPX-2 looks like a nice handgun. Always like the black body with the silver upper. That S&W Bodyguard looks like a nice one also. Might have to check those out.
It seems well made and tolerances aren’t bad, but most reviewers consider it to be what it is…a budget gun. Speaking of which, the Exchange also had a Hi-Point for $180. The Hi-Point is often considered “junk”, but in my opinion it provides low-income persons with a viable means of self-defense, much like Jennings, Jimenez Arms, and other low price/low quality guns. I wouldn’t choose a Hi-Point for concealed carry, but if it was all I could afford for a bedside gun I’d choose it over a bat. Worst case scenario, it’s a solid projectile to throw at someone.
I actually had a Hi-Point once, unbeknownst to me at the time. A coworker at the Caddy dealership had a .40 S&W Iberia he offered me for $100. I bought it but never carried it with a round chambered. No idea how many rounds may or may not have gone through it (I fired a mag or two while I had it), but the gun was extremely loose, with an exposed trigger bar that seemed unsafe. My memories may be a bit blurred, but at the time I already owned my Beretta and knew that the Iberia was not a pistol to carry for personal defense. IIRC, I gave or traded it to a friend. It wasn’t until fairly recently that I looked up the model and saw that it is made by Hi-Point.
SCCY and similar companies (I’m really out of touch with modern budget manufacturers, and just found out that even Century Arms is in the game now with Canik) are a vast step up from Hi-Point and their ilk, IMHO. I doubt we’ll see these brands competing for military or law enforcement contracts, but I have no doubt that some regularly train with and carry these with full trust that they’ll perform if needed.
What do you think of the Polymer80 – P80?
I don’t know how I missed this thread but I’m glad I found it
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Eric – TIA wrote:
On 12/20/2021 at 10:51 AM, Eric – TIA said:What do you think of the Polymer80 – P80?
The 80% gun companies are legal under current law and from what I’ve heard, most offer quality products. I had to look up P80, but I think I’ve been on their website before. I like the concept–80% finished gun frames/receivers that require a slight bit of craftsmanship to complete–but I’m wary of how long these will be legal, and what might happen to those who buy such kits if and when they are declared illegal.
I had the (mis)fortune of turning 18 under President Clinton, when the Assault Weapons Ban was in full swing, and as I shared in my yet-to-be continued Crime and Criminals thread, I feel like I was made an example of due to the type of firearms I owned at the time. Those who are old enough to remember the ’90s remember the stories of ATF raids on gun owners, and nearly everyone has heard of both the Waco Siege and Ruby Ridge, which were both based on firearms charges. Needless to say, I’m a bit distrustful of federal agencies and I don’t want to give them an excuse reason to investigate me for something I legally own. Heck, I live fairly close to the FBI Academy nowadays, so I’m doubling down on not owning anything that would raise eyebrows in all of the Alphabet Headquarters an hour north of me. 😇
The media and anti-gun activists already have a term for P80 and similar companies’ products: “ghost guns”. Like bump stocks, pistol braces, and the “assault weapons” that were banned from 1994-2004, these things are vilified as making communities unsafe and turning otherwise law-abiding citizens into dangerous criminals who are plotting to overthrow democracy as we know it. Or something like that…
Again, I like the concept. I doubt I’d buy one of these anytime soon, though, primarily due to my cynicism and the possibility that any of us could become a felon overnight if certain legislation is passed. Heck, if I lived in certain states, I’d face well over a hundred charges for possessing “high capacity magazines” right now.
Good to know and thanks for the information.
So, I’m currently looking for a good place to do some regular shooting. It kind of sucks not knowing anyone around here anymore, as until a few years ago I had a few choices of private land to shoot on within a couple of hours. As I told my wife, if I decide to pursue a law enforcement career I feel a need to train vigorously. Heck, regardless, I want to train with my carry pieces, especially weak hand with a backup gun (BUG) such as one of the Kel-Tecs, the Taurus .38, or the new SCCY. I hope to never have to resort to deadly force as a civilian, cop, or even during my remaining military service, but I guess I’ll have fun in the meantime.
Additionally, my son and his girlfriend will be old enough to get concealed carry permits in the coming months. I’ve already discussed gifting a couple of my pistols to them, but want to impart some knowledge gained from years of experience carrying. For example, how camouflage complements concealment…e.g. my Kel-Tec P32 with pocket clip looking like a knife so long as it is in a good holster that prevents printing. Also, carry something good enough for the budget and always have a reload or two, especially for semiautomatic pistols (my experience is that a failure to feed is the most common failure in detachable magazine fed weapons).
The G17 has truly grown on me, and while I haven’t carried it in a few days, the Glock Combat Holster (very little retention if open carrying, but an inexpensive and quality holster nonetheless) has stayed on my belt. I’m really liking the thought of adding a G26 and maybe a G19 to the collection, enabling me to adapt my carry piece to the weather and my wardrobe without requiring too many different holsters. The double magazine carrier I bought for the G17 could be kept on my belt, and I’d have the choice of swapping out mags (or not, if I have the G17 mags while carrying a G26).
In the end, those of us here who enjoy shooting or who believe in having the proper tools for self-defense will mostly differ in preferences and opinions. I went from a lifetime Glockaphobe to actually liking my new Glock 17 enough to consider getting its baby siblings. Heck, I was also eyeing some of the Slimline Glocks last week. I’ll continue updating this thread with my new purchases as they’re made. As stated previously, if I’m buying from a licensed dealer, especially on a military installation, the proper authorities already know what I’m buying. Funny enough, out of the four handguns I’ve bought since September, I’ve been put in a “delay” status for three of them. Just like old times, but now the system’s automated, so I only wait for 45 minutes instead of three hours. 🔫
Yes, having private land to shoot is nice. I use to be able to shoot at my buddy’s place until he moved. Being around Chicago, we only have public places which are always filled up, so I miss the day of going to my buddy’s house to shoot. I love shooting and practicing and wish I could practice more, especial with my conceal.
I was able to visit Moab with Wheel tools and we built a P80, which I have and like. Would like to shoot more with it but finding the time is hard. I am the same way you were with having Glockaphobe and need to get over it.
I recently found this channel and have enjoyed their content so far. The video below reinforces some of my long held beliefs about self defense firearms. The KISS principle applies, IMHO, but I’ll modify the acronym to Keep It Simply (Mostly) Stock. These attorneys differentiate between function enhancing and cosmetic modifications to carry or home defense guns. I agree, modifying a firearm to increase its functionality for you (the individual) is one thing. Adding extraneous things to make a firearm “cool” can be used as a weapon against you in court.
As a new Glock owner, I recall reading about the “New York trigger” in the late ’90s, which the NYPD adopted to increase the trigger pull weight from 5.5 lbs to 8 lbs. This decreases the chance of negligent discharges, though it probably goes against what most private citizens would want. On the flip side, modifying the trigger pull weight to 3 pounds might be considered “dangerous” and a prosecutor might successfully argue this in court. Another matter is slogans being printed on a gun. Much like posting signs (i.e. “No trespassing. Violators will be shot, survivors will be shot again”), this could open up a prosecutorial argument that someone who used deadly force had been looking for a reason to do so.
As always my posts are nowhere near legal advice, but a column by Massad Ayoob from one of the gun magazines I picked up in the mid-’90s has always stuck out. He shared his experience when called as an expert witness in a self-defense case, where a homeowner used deadly force during a burglary. The homeowner had a Beretta 92 equipped with a laser sight, flashlight, and extended magazine (thank the Beretta 93R for larger capacity factory mags, much like Glock owners can thank the Glock 18), and from what I recall this was used against him in court, ending with him being convicted of manslaughter.
For this reason, my Mossberg 590 with bayonet lug, 8+1 capacity, Side Saddle, and Speed feed stock sits in the closet, with the plain Jane police surplus Winchester 1200 Riot serving as the home defense scattergun.
Great channel, thanks for sharing.
Today I fell into a deal I could not pass up. A Scar heavy in 308 and a PSA AR-1o in 6.5 CREEDMOOR and a Wilson combat 45
regopit wrote:
4 hours ago, regopit said:Today I fell into a deal I could not pass up. A Scar heavy in 308 and a PSA AR-1o in 6.5 CREEDMOOR and a Wilson combat 45
I’m sure that still wasn’t a cheap purchase though. I would like to get a Scar but the prices are just crazy.
DR99 wrote:
2 hours ago, DR99 said:I’m sure that still wasn’t a cheap purchase though. I would like to get a Scar but the prices are just crazy.
It wasn’t to bad. Back in the late 70’s I shot high power rife competition. I had 2 FN30-11 sniper in 308 Karl Kaps scope, and the Anschutz target sight. I made a straight up trade one of the 30-11’s for the Scar.
Regopit, I never knew you shot in competition before. See always learn something new everyday. That’s cool.
I finally found a seemingly decent holster for the G17, and just received one for the Taurus revolver today. The Glock holster is locally made by Southern Custom Tactical and is a kydex inside-the-waistband (IWB) style while the Taurus holster is a leather belt slide style made in the US by Outbags. I’ve been using the Glock Combat Holster quite a bit, mostly for concealed carry, though I will open carry at the flipper house. I’ve been using a TEGE brand (made in China) dual magazine carrier for the Glock, which was inexpensive but seems to be fairly well made and is adjustable. It is a bit bulky but conceals well under a vest, jacket, or heavy shirt.
Whenever I replace the S&W Model 19 I hope to locate my old holsters. The favorite was a paddle-style that I could keep in the truck while working but could conceal in uniform if needed (this was during my days as a Recruiter). I also have/had a pancake style holster for it that worked well along with a leather police surplus speed loader pouch. After buying the Model 29 and the Taurus I got a cheap nylon speed loader pouch but have yet to use it, opting instead to keep the couple of reloads in a jacket pocket.
As I renew my dedication to daily carry and look to optimize both my carry options and my gun handling abilities, I need to locate the rest of my old carry holsters and such. Being left-handed usually means a big lack of holster options in stock, but some 12-20 years ago I was able to get some bargains on quality holsters for my Beretta 92F, Para Ordnance, and of course the Model 19. Law enforcement supply stores usually had a few left-handed holsters in the clearance bin, especially for those handguns that were falling out of common use on the pistol belts of law enforcement officers. Basically, if it wasn’t a Glock or a SIG I could probably find a good belt holster for it at the time for pennies on the dollar.
Finally, for now, I may look into other carry options, particularly for the revolvers and pocket pistols (e.g. Kel-Tec P32 and Beretta Tomcat, along with a possible .380 in the near future). I’ve almost always carried strong side on the hip, with the exception of using a thigh holster in the woods on occasion, but the little Taurus or especially a .32 would carry well in an ankle rig, while the Model 29 almost begs for a shoulder and/or chest rig. I like the thought of having a variety of holster options, as how I carry in an urbanized area will almost always differ from how I carry on my property, in the woods, or while working.
My renewed carry permit should be here in a week or two, and I’m almost due for another gun…if I can afford one this month. I’ve been compaaring the G19X to the standard G19 Gen5 but may end up going for another pocket pistol or a Baby Glock instead. Also, I’ve never owned a SIG Sauer or HK pistol so those are on the list to eventually research and consider adding to the collection.
No new handgun (yet), but I did look at some yesterday. The Glock 19X caught my eye recently; I’ve been so out of the the gun knowledge circle I didn’t even realize it competed against the SIG P320 to replace the venerable M9. My 92F will always have a place on the rack and on my person, but I’m liking the simplicity and time proven performance of Glock. Also, the “point and click” nature of them, with nearly identical function and characteristics regardless of caliber or size.
Anyway, the G19X is essentially a Gen 4 model with a few Gen 5 features. It’s Coyote brown in color, which is perfect for the modern military veteran. Most of us seem to like emulating our uniforms and equipment. Me? Not so much. So, I found out about the law enforcement equivalent–the G45. Similar to the G19X but a true Gen 5, lacking the 17+2 round mags, but in a traditional black finish. I think I’m sold. When I get one it will fit the G17 holsters and the mags will be interchangeable (Gen 5 mags won’t fit Gen 4 pistols like the 19X), giving me the option of six 17-round mags if I want to carry them (doubtful, unless I’m carrying for a job).
I mentioned the G45 to a coworker and he mentioned that his wife’s G19 MOS is for sale, so there may be both a second and third Glock in the house soon. He also mentioned having access to a range. I guess he shoots competitively and is sponsored by them.
Quantico sells the G26 Gen 5 for $469, a bit lower than elsewhere. When I get back to Richmond I’m going to check Blue pricing at the police supply store I used to frequent. First responders and military can save $100 or so buying through that program.
I did spot a Taurus Model 85 Air weight for $299. My first handgun was the Model 85 (steel frame) and this would be a nice carry option, but I have the steel 856 now. I did grab a couple of speed strips for it to complement the two speed loaders, so now have four reloads if needed.
At some point I need to get some good self defense ammo. The Federal 9BP Hi-Shok round was my preferred carry cartridge in the ’90s and has a very good reputation for accuracy and reliability. I found 1000 rounds for under $600 but am going to shop around a bit. The ball ammo I have for my semiautomatic pistols and the semi-wadcutters for the revolvers has worked for well over a century, but the point of carrying is to protect myself, loved ones, and perhaps innocent victims. Well, the true point is to avoid situations and never have to even think about drawing a firearm or resorting to violence, but in this day and age we never know what may happen.
I am a huge gun fan but don’t know that much about them. Never grew up with them and just haven’t taken much time to learn about all the different versions around. I always pick up some knowledge from your post, thanks.
Eric – TIA wrote:
On 1/21/2022 at 10:51 AM, Eric – TIA said:I am a huge gun fan but don’t know that much about them. Never grew up with them and just haven’t taken much time to learn about all the different versions around. I always pick up some knowledge from your post, thanks.
I didn’t grow up around them either. Never went shooting as a kid and didn’t get my first gun, a Remington Sportsman 48 with 28′ barrel and Poly-Choke, until I turned 18.
The fun that comes along with shooting really got me interested years ago, the history of the surplus firearms I started buying in the ’90s fueled the flames, and the practicality of gaining further knowledge and training kept me going and recently rekindled my interest.
For me it’s a fun hobby. I have been buying some here and there. I think if I had a place to shoot, it would be much better. We only have indoor ranges and there is always such a long wait list.
It would be great if there were more places to shoot. Twenty years ago I had a couple of options. My best friend lived and worked on a dairy farm with plenty of land to shoot on and my brother’s best friend’s family owned another (out of use) farm. Both offered great shooting areas out to a few hundred meters for rifles, but nowadays I’d feel much better with a good backstop to avoid any possibility of a round hitting something I don’t intend to.
Whenever I’m able to hang up the uniform, I may be able to shoot in my backyard again. I only have an acre, but the drainage ditch behind my property makes a good backstop for pistol and shotgun shooting, and ten years ago the neighbors had no issue with me shooting occasionally. We’ll see, if I do decide to go into law enforcement I’ll have access to the department or agency range, but having the ability to shoot on my own property is nice.
That would be awesome to be able to shoot in your back yard. I think I might need to move.
It’s nice being able to do what I want on my property. When I first moved to Louisiana as a Recruiter, I used a VA loan to buy my house. My criteria were simple: no HOA and preferably outside of the city. My Realtor kept trying to entice me with newly built 1200-1600 square foot houses in developed communities, with the requisite HOA. I kept looking, found a 2000 square foot house with two built-in garages (a double and a single, so I have as much as 2600 sq. ft. if I convert them to living spaces), and signed the paperwork. The house is over forty years old now; the prior owner bought it from the builder who originally planned to live there himself before a divorce changed his plans, so I need to do a little updating once I retire. I might have a tool or two to help with renovations, and before the family decided to commit to moving with me I planned on just turning half of the house into a workshop. It’s not the fanciest or largest, but I have privacy in the backyard, it’s on a dead end street with neighbors who watch out for each other’s property, and though I’m nowhere near old yet, it’s built on a slab with no more than a few inch step anywhere in the house if there are ever mobility issues (twenty years in the Infantry takes a toll). It’s the largest house on the street as the builder developed the entire neighborhood and started with the house he intended to move into.
Much like I always notice things in the house I currently rent in Northern Virginia that point to it being a rental property (self-adhesive tiles placed over previously installed ones, wood floors placed over linoleum, etc.) I find my house kind of speaks to its history. It has a nice built-in desk, built in bookcase, and had premium (if older) appliances when I moved in, including a double wall oven and countertop cooking surface. It also has linoleum flooring in the living room and had a mix of premium and budget light fixtures, adding to the story that the homebuilder was making it “his” but decided to simply finish it with the materials he had on hand when he decided to sell it instead. It’s a mix of circa 1980 nicety and cheesiness.
Anyway, I’m rambling due to boredom. The family has been sharing COVID-19 for the past two weeks, mice decided to move in during the power outage a few weeks ago (the dogs got two–the lab brings them to me while the mountain cur seems content to merely corner them until the lab or I take care of it like she did a possum a month or two ago [the possum wasn’t harmed, I finally got her inside], funny how breeding leads to different temperaments–and no-kill traps have been effective, so we’re almost in the clear), and teleworking is getting old but is still preferable to driving back and forth to work. If (when?) I go into work this week I might have another addition to this thread. The Glock 26 Gen 5 at Quantico is still tempting at $469, and if Fort Belvoir has a Glock 45 it may come home with me instead. I like the G17 and find it easy enough to conceal inside the-waistband (IWB) or even outside-the-waistband (OWB) with a good outer garment, but the shorter slide of the G45 would be nice, and also provide three more 17-round magazines that work with either pistol. In a couple of months I’m probably going on a Hawaiian shirt spree again. I found years ago that a Hawaiian shirt coupled with shorts or pants a size or two up are nearly perfect for concealed carry. The pattern on the shirt helps to camouflage printing and stepping up a size is conducive to IWB carry. During these winter months, the Wrangler vest I picked up at Sam’s Club has been great. Coupled with a work shirt it covers the G17 and the vest pockets are perfect for carrying the Taurus .38 SPL, either in one of the hand pockets or the inside pocket. Bundled up for the weather back in December, I was able to successfully conceal the G17, SCCY, and Taurus at one time, with a few reloads. Admittedly, that was a bit excessive, but I wanted to test the concept of carrying multiple handguns as I always like having at least one backup.
Good you listened to what you wanted and found the house that fits you. Crazy all the stuff that needs to be done with homes. If we all had more time, lol.
fm2176 wrote:
On 11/16/2021 at 7:25 PM, fm2176 said:Okay, I guess gun types don’t frequent these forums. 🙂
But…I bought a Glock 17 today. It came with three 17 round magazines and the store was out of additional ones (I really wanted to have four mags with one in the chamber for 69 total), so I bought a 33 round mag and the Glock Combat Holster. Now I just need to find more ammo. Carried a .45, .38, and .32 this past weekend, and probably going with 9mm, .38, and .44 this weekend.
Hey Will. Sorry for the absence but life sometimes takes us on new adventures. Anyways just retired from sp as a Sgt and task force commander. Being newly retired with a 2 year old, a 5 year old and my Wife and not having a cruiser armory in my drive I now carry with credentials ( I never did before but due to unprecedented social and political events my Opinion and Attitude has changed) and my home is as well defended as it was when I had my cruiser at home. I am not a gun nut and I do not get into politics but like most American Cops I fully support and encourage Citizens to own and TRAIN with firearms. Great topic starter! Also I am sure you know about Palmetto State Armory but if not check them out. Very pleased with their service.
Never heard of Palmetto State Armory but looks pretty cool. Will have to check them out.