Makita behind on batteries

How far behind is Makita on batteries ?  Festool just released a 4 amp 21700 cell battery. If you are behind Festool you are in the dark ages. 

I am 100% in favour of Makita keeping the LXT platform compact and releasing the 40v XGT as a better solution to higher demand tools.

Jacking up the current rather than voltage, is a bandaid solution.
Less heat is a good thing, smaller wire is a good thing.

Besides, 12.0 batteries look foolish on 18v drills and impacts.

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glass wrote:

23 hours ago, glass said:

If you are behind Festool you are in the dark ages. 

Not necessarily. Some tools that would be hard to live without Festool pioneered/invented. Orbital, random orbital, and plunge/track saws to name a few.

Fool. 4 and 6 amp 21700 cell batteries preform better. And are not bigger. 12 amp batteries are a devils advocate response. Be real   Do you own stock in Makita or are you a professional apologist. 

Jironman. We talking cordless bub 

glass wrote:

12 hours ago, glass said:

Jironman. We talking cordless bub 

They may be behind in the battery cell game but they are ahead in terms of vac activation via the battery.  I don’t know of any other company that activates their vacs via the battery. Some batteries like the DeWALT tool connect battery have the potential to wirelessly connect to vacs but don’t because DeWALT decided to go in a different direction. I would rather buy a couple bluetooth batteries than upgrade all my tools that need dust collection.

Makita is dead. They killed themselves with that 40 XGT bs. And they can’t put 21700 in the 18V because they don’t fit. So they are stuck.

And frankly the others suck too. Their batteries are too big.

I think the only company that has a future is the one that makes a mixed 20V-40V battery and that is small. I think Metabo has it. With some other company.

At this point it’s clear that batteries have to be standardised. Same battery for all cordless tools. Governments need to step in and force them to abide to a standard.

Here is a response I got from makita when I asked if they were going to listen to their customers about making some bigger batteries:

Thank you for your question and comments. The 18V LXT platform isn’t going anywhere – in fact, we just announced over 25 new LXT products on the way in early 2020! With over 225 products (and 250+ in 2020) LXT is the world’s largest 18V cordless tool system.  
As for bigger 18V batteries, we already have a solution – and it’s called 18V X2. For those highest-demand applications (rotary hammers, blowers, string trimmers, miter saws, dust extractors, and more), Makita created 36V tools and power equipment powered by two 18V batteries for 36V performance with the same fast-charging 18V batteries that you use on core tools like drills, impact drivers, and 225+ other LXT tools. We also just don’t focus on batteries; our success in delivering high power with 36V is due to our purpose-built BL motors. We develop motors specific to the tool’s applications. You might not need to carry around 20 batteries since Makita 18V LXT batteries offer category-leading charge times and, in early 2020, we will offer the new LXT Portable Power Supply Battery Backpack– this power management solution will supply up to 4x the run time for 18V tools and twice the run time for 18V X2 tools. 

We’re sorry for your frustrating experience with the chuck on your XPH07. You have the option to mail in your drill for service so that you do not have to drive 2 hours to the Factory Service Center. If you would like additional assistance with information on warranty or service, please DM your contact information and we will have a customer service representative contact you directly.

kat wrote:

At this point it’s clear that batteries have to be standardised. Same battery for all cordless tools. Governments need to step in and force them to abide to a standard.

Mordekyle wrote:

1 hour ago, Mordekyle said:

 

 

I don’t think it’s clear to anyone else.

Why would the govt need to overreach?


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I was wondering the same…

As for the batteries, I am not particularly concerned with the lack of bigger batteries; yeah, longer run time would be nice with some tools (e.g., grinders, x2 blower, trimmer, and sds max), but I have enough batteries and chargers to cycle and in my applications that isn’t a huge inconvenience.  It might be for other users. However, I would like to see 21700 batteries for the increased performance potential and compactness, but only if they are able to ensure the added draw doesn’t add excessive wear on the batteries or tools. These might not function with all current X2 tools, but I’d pay that price.

So having the same connectors on batteries across all brands, does not seem to be a benefiting the user in your opinion?

kat wrote:

So having the same connectors on batteries across all brands, does not seem to be a benefiting the user in your opinion?

I am on the fence about universal batteries. On the one hand, I don’t want the big companies like DeWALT, Makita, Milwaukee, etc. to standardize. It may be more convenient but less room for innovation. On the other hand, for the smaller companies like Greenlee, Graco, Mac, etc. it makes a lot of sense to not have to make their own battery. They just use someone else’s to save cost and whatnot.

Makita is ahead on batteries where they want to be…these XGT batteries appear to be charging in about half the time of their 18V Watt-hour equivalents, which were already faster than the rest of the market (and mostly still are) for quite some time.

Sadly it just seems Makita wants everyone to believe they’ve really dug into their current decision against anything larger than 6Ah for the time being. It’s their business they can do what they want and I’m not about to ditch the platform, but it should be obvious the market is responding negatively to it. This isn’t going to just be about losing current people, but getting fewer new adopters as time goes on.

Although I think it’s fantastic they’re continuing to innovate in other directions to improve efficiency further, with all the thin kerf blades coming out and just general mechanical efficiency within the tools themselves. I hope they continue to pursue those avenues as it will make them even more advantageous if/when they do come to their senses and finally release larger batteries.

To me LXT needs nothing more than an 8Ah, which they themselves have already proven really would not be that substantially larger than their 3-6Ah units, only requiring 10 of the 21700 cells. I’m hard-pressed to see the need for the 15-cell behemoths the red and yellow teams have released.

Not only are 21700 cells advantageous for larger batteries, but now they can do single-bank batteries with 21700 cells that can be up to 4Ah. They can use them in CXT batteries either as compact single-bank or larger-capacity duel bank. Single-bank 21700 batteries could make a whole lot of sense for compact tools that still need more power than Makita’s smallest batteries. Yet Makita seems to be passing up on ALL of these potential product options, not just the one we’re talking about in this thread. Makes one wonder if they have some specific concern or issue with the cells themselves.

I spoke to makita USA the other day about this issue and they told be they were working on a new 9ah battery. They weren’t sure on the release date but it is coming they said. 

Fireguy116 wrote:

6 hours ago, Fireguy116 said:

I spoke to makita USA the other day about this issue and they told be they were working on a new 9ah battery. They weren’t sure on the release date but it is coming they said. 

Well I’ll be hoping this proves to be true in the near-term. For all we know they could be speculating themselves, though. Makita seems to do a good job keeping things “close to the vest” when it comes to such things. 

9 Ah that’s either 3-row pack of the same cells that make 2-row 6Ah or finally some new breakthrough chemistry. Or a hoax.

it’s obviously a bigger battery, so 3 or 4 rows.

There is no new breakthrough chemistry.

HiltiWpg wrote:

I am 100% in favour of Makita keeping the LXT platform compact and releasing the 40v XGT as a better solution to higher demand tools.

Jacking up the current rather than voltage, is a bandaid solution.
Less heat is a good thing, smaller wire is a good thing.

Besides, 12.0 batteries look foolish on 18v drills and impacts.

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kat wrote:

Makita is dead. They killed themselves with that 40 XGT bs. And they can’t put 21700 in the 18V because they don’t fit. So they are stuck.
And frankly the others suck too. Their batteries are too big.
I think the only company that has a future is the one that makes a mixed 20V-40V battery and that is small. I think Metabo has it. With some other company.
At this point it’s clear that batteries have to be standardised. Same battery for all cordless tools. Governments need to step in and force them to abide to a standard.

reddawg60 wrote:

Why would I or anyone use a 12.0 on a drill or impact?… Not a chance, use the correct battery on the proper tool for the proper application.

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reddawg60 wrote:

Why would I or anyone use a 12.0 on a drill or impact?… Not a chance, use the correct battery on the proper tool for the proper application.

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HiltiWpg wrote:

And you are kidding yourself if you think guys don’t use 12.0 on impacts and drills. The most common answer I get when I ask them why, is “I don’t have to charge for days”.



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Or drag out a 20 lb 100’ dt cord….

I agree that just because other people will make awkward decisions throwing oversized batteries on tools that won’t benefit from it doesn’t mean everyone else is obligated to do the same. Adding an 8 or 9 Ah battery won’t mean the 3-6Ah or even 2Ah batteries will suddenly no longer be offered or you aren’t allowed to use them anymore. It’s merely an available solution that would be extremely useful for some tools. In contrast to drills and impact drivers, stuff like the sander, handheld vacuum, etc actually do draw a lot of current for their size and a somewhat larger battery makes a lot of sense for those tools. While the X2 solution would not be justified, or would be a needless encumbrance. Oh…and how about the coffee maker? Gotta be able to make coffee. 😂

Makita has had 20 cell tools since 2013 and yet people still want bigger batteries for Makita tools. Current 15 cell batteries for the most part only date back to 2016 with flexvolt then others shortly after. Does Makita really need larger cells yet? Is 20 cells of 18650 really farther behind than 15 or even 10 of the 21700?

I am very happy with the 5AH batteries, but hopefully there will be a promotion on these when they come out.

Fireguy116 wrote:

On 12/25/2019 at 2:26 PM, Fireguy116 said:

I spoke to makita USA the other day about this issue and they told be they were working on a new 9ah battery. They weren’t sure on the release date but it is coming they said. 

reddawg60 wrote:

Why would I or anyone use a 12.0 on a drill or impact?… Not a chance, use the correct battery on the proper tool for the proper application.

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There’s a guy who’s missing the point. Sure, changing batteries too often is inconvenient but an impact driver with even a 3Ah battery just goes and goes and goes. I’m actually planning to get a pair of 3Ah batteries at some point for this specific reason, even while they are the exact same size as the 5Ah.

I’m all for matching the tool and battery for the task at hand.  Then again it wasn’t that long ago that dewalt xrp 18v batteries were the gold standard in cordless and a 9.0 pack isn’t much different in size.  Personally I’m glad those days are in the past and love the new smaller and lighter tools but it might not be quit as ridiculous to others as it seems to us.

ToolBane wrote:

There’s a guy who’s missing the point. Sure, changing batteries too often is inconvenient but an impact driver with even a 3Ah battery just goes and goes and goes. I’m actually planning to get a pair of 3Ah batteries at some point for this specific reason, even while they are the exact same size as the 5Ah.

Reddawg didn’t think anyone would.

These are the same idiots who use impacts in panels and on trim work.

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People do all sorts of dumb things or should I say things that don’t make alot of common sense, but the majority by far that use these impacts for a living won’t put a 12ah battery on an impact.
It’s a moot point as far as I’m concerned.

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ToolBane wrote:

There’s a guy who’s missing the point. Sure, changing batteries too often is inconvenient but an impact driver with even a 3Ah battery just goes and goes and goes. I’m actually planning to get a pair of 3Ah batteries at some point for this specific reason, even while they are the exact same size as the 5Ah.

ToolBane wrote:

There’s a guy who’s missing the point. Sure, changing batteries too often is inconvenient but an impact driver with even a 3Ah battery just goes and goes and goes. I’m actually planning to get a pair of 3Ah batteries at some point for this specific reason, even while they are the exact same size as the 5Ah.

From a recent Makita patent filing.  

Jjwillac wrote:

6 hours ago, Jjwillac said:

From a recent Makita patent filing.  

Not going to sit on their laurels while Milwaukee is making light equipment it appears

So looking at this again, specifically the number (32) and arrangement of cells. What would be the voltage and ah on this? The connection appears to be XGT, but the cell count doesn’t seem to work with 40V? I might just be missing something?

IMHO, looking at connection strips 20/22, it’s 16s2p configuration. 57.6V or 64Vmax.

It definitely won’t be XGT. XGT needs multiples of 10 cells and this is 32. 64V Max seems likely as Quazar suggests. 128V Max is also feasible for the number of cells.

Not sure I am doing the math right, but dimensions would be at least 144x65x64 mm or 168x70x84 mm depending on the size of cells.

Perhaps an OPE dedicated battery platform?

I don’t understand why don’t tool manufacturers use li-po pouch cells.

Cylindrical cells are just not the right kind of tech for power tools because of the low discharge currents. Plus they take up too much space.

But li-pos pouches can discharge hundreds of amps because of the huge surface area, and they last much longer, like 80% after 1000+ cycles. 

Cylindrical cells only last 250-300 cycles at 80%

I found some pictures on net. Parameters: 64Vmax 5.0 Ah 290Wh

😲To Ma Poser Quasare! Good Find!

kat wrote:

On 12/10/2019 at 5:40 PM, kat said:

At this point it’s clear that batteries have to be standardised. Same battery for all cordless tools. Governments need to step in and force them to abide to a standard.

This is the stupidest take I have ever seen in my entire life.  I went through the hassle of creating an account just to ridicule it.

An here we go, one year later, power tool manufacturers are finally switching to pouch cells!

First are Dewalt and Flex, but rumours are the Makita will be switching too. I hope they won’t be the last again 🙁

64 volt has been launched:

https://www.makita.co.nz/search/64Vmax

kat wrote:

On 5/1/2022 at 5:53 PM, kat said:

An here we go, one year later, power tool manufacturers are finally switching to pouch cells!

First are Dewalt and Flex, but rumours are the Makita will be switching too. I hope they won’t be the last again 🙁

 

Would the newer Stihl AP500s batteries fit into that category?

4 years later, Milkwaukee and Dewalt are now making pouch cell batteries too. Only Makita left behind with old outdated tech. All they came up is some tabless cell that is slightly better, that is still much inferior to any pouch cell

In my opinion Makita strategy is always to give priority to reliability of their products, cilindrical lithium cells are demonstrated one of the most safe , sturdy and also cost effective type to create tools battery packs.

going to pouch cells means a totally new production line for batteries and maybe not yet available for all battery sizes.

I agree with Makita philosophy.. personally I have also Dewalt but cannot feel the desire to buy the small 1.7ah battery still too pricey for what it offers..

@Shondave No, it’s just that Makita gave up on LXT platform.