Title edit: Makita announcing XGT 36V line

Among many things I’m inferring from the video:

-21700 cells finally being utilized

-not too ridiculous in size…akin to Bosche’s Core batteries

edit:

-natively operates at 36V

-press release in Australia

https://www.makita.com.au/Next-Generation-Technology

Some people have noticed a gap between the two batteries pack on some recent x2 tools, this might explain why…

Could that also be the new OPE battery platform that Makita representatives have been talking about for years?

Hmm…I dunno…while there are people around social media saying…or perhaps like myself strongly hoping for…backwards compatibility…I’m looking closer now and am not so sure.

Since I’m on a road trip and can’t access any photoshop software this is about as close to a direct visual comparison of these new batteries vs LXT I can get out of my iPhone and I am NOT at all sure these new ones will fit in LXT tools. Having left all my LXT tools home isn’t helping.

The other thing is, there’s nothing on these batteries that suggests a second voltage available akin to LXT. There’s noise both ways on social media but at least one person is going so far as to say he’s been attending Makita presentations in Japan and compatibility with LXT has been stated repeatedly. Can’t say that’s more than hearsay until an official press release though.

From a distance, losing backwards compatibility sounds like it could be more trouble than it’s worth, having to remake almost every LXT model into 36 volt versions of themselves. There also wouldn’t be any option for compact batteries. And most importantly ditching the largest 18V platform on the market to start over could be suicide. They already tried 36V in the past and the market did not embrace it.

ToolBane wrote:

53 minutes ago, ToolBane said:

Hmm…I dunno…while there are people around social media saying…or perhaps like myself strongly hoping for…backwards compatibility…I’m looking closer now and am not so sure.

 

Since I’m on a road trip and can’t access any photoshop software this is about as close to a direct visual comparison of these new batteries vs LXT I can get out of my iPhone and I am NOT at all sure these new ones will fit in LXT tools. Having left all my LXT tools home isn’t helping.

 

The other thing is, there’s nothing on these batteries that suggests a second voltage available akin to LXT. There’s noise both ways on social media but at least one person is going so far as to say he’s been attending Makita presentations in Japan and compatibility with LXT has been stated repeatedly. Can’t say that’s more than hearsay until an official press release though.

 

From a distance, losing backwards compatibility sounds like it could be more trouble than it’s worth, having to remake almost every LXT model into 36 volt versions of themselves. There also wouldn’t be any option for compact batteries. And most importantly ditching the largest 18V platform on the market to start over could be suicide. They already tried 36V in the past and the market did not embrace it.

It’s not backwards compatible, it’s pretty clear it isn’t. It will be just another platform in makita’s line. Can’t see then ditching their 18v line. It’s possible the tools are multi voltage and 18v batteries will work on these new tools. There is an adapter being shown, but just speculation at the moment. The global press release is in a few days 

A number of press releases today…

It appears that the new XGT system is completely separate. Makita have stated that they will develop both systems (LXT & XGT) going forward.

In my eyes this is a terrible strategy, further dividing the battery ecosystems and providing additional misunderstanding from the general public. Many will say that professional users will have a full understanding of how this works such as which tools suit which system however I beg to differ. In my experience this will cause a great amount of confusion for consumers of the makita brand across ALL their platforms.

Hopefully makita will bring out some larger Ah batteries (LXT) similar to what bosch have been doing.

dev wrote:

3 hours ago, dev said:

A number of press releases today…

It appears that the new XGT system is completely separate. Makita have stated that they will develop both systems (LXT & XGT) going forward.

In my eyes this is a terrible strategy, further dividing the battery ecosystems and providing additional misunderstanding from the general public. Many will say that professional users will have a full understanding of how this works such as which tools suit which system however I beg to differ. In my experience this will cause a great amount of confusion for consumers of the makita brand across ALL their platforms.

Hopefully makita will bring out some larger Ah batteries similar to what bosch have been doing.

Same here. I’m not sure what the thinking really is. Unless they’ve run these 36V tools and have simply found them to out-perform 18V by a very consistent and significant degree. Then as the two lines grow people may transition on their own accord. I’d speculate that to be unlikely, but we’ll see how that plays out.

I’m actually a little relieved at the cumulative message as it appears LXT will continue to be their bread and butter.

I’ll say what I think I’m most optimistic about: this strongly suggests to me Makita likely has 8Ah batteries on the way, with a compact form-factor not unlike what Bosch managed to do with their Core batteries. I say this because the XGT 2.5V looks like nothing more than their 5Ah LXT but with all ten 18650 cells in series instead of a pair of 5 cells in series. The 4Ah 40V Max XGT is only slightly longer at the front, and possibly slightly wider. Those are likely 21700 cells, 10 in series, that would make 8Ah if formatted to 18V for LXT. I’m hoping these come out sooner rather than later.

IMO everyone will eventually be forced to go > 18v for high performance tools. You can really see how Milwaukee have fallen behind with their larger tools as opposed to DeWalt, metabo, Husqvarna etc. 18v just doesn’t cut it for consistent heavy loads. Batteries were striding along well once and during the last year not much has changed at all so hopefully we get some big announcements later on in the year or early next year! 8ah just doesn’t cut it.

method wrote:

IMO everyone will eventually be forced to go > 18v for high performance tools. You can really see how Milwaukee have fallen behind with their larger tools as opposed to DeWalt, metabo, Husqvarna etc. 18v just doesn’t cut it for consistent heavy loads. Batteries were striding along well once and during the last year not much has changed at all so hopefully we get some big announcements later on in the year or early next year! 8ah just doesn’t cut it.

ToolBane wrote:

On 10/9/2019 at 4:58 PM, ToolBane said:

 

Same here. I’m not sure what the thinking really is. Unless they’ve run these 36V tools and have simply found them to out-perform 18V by a very consistent and significant degree. Then as the two lines grow people may transition on their own accord. I’d speculate that to be unlikely, but we’ll see how that plays out.

 

I’m actually a little relieved at the cumulative message as it appears LXT will continue to be their bread and butter.

 

I’ll say what I think I’m most optimistic about: this strongly suggests to me Makita likely has 8Ah batteries on the way, with a compact form-factor not unlike what Bosch managed to do with their Core batteries. I say this because the XGT 2.5V looks like nothing more than their 5Ah LXT but with all ten 18650 cells in series instead of a pair of 5 cells in series. The 4Ah 40V Max XGT is only slightly longer at the front, and possibly slightly wider. Those are likely 21700 cells, 10 in series, that would make 8Ah if formatted to 18V for LXT. I’m hoping these come out sooner rather than later.

There will be no new batteries for the lxt platform. 6ah 18650 will be the biggest for lxt 

I’d imagine the idea is to keep weight down and compactness, and still achieve more power?

I have a lot of 18 volt and 36 volt Makita, and am happy with the performance and weight of both types, so I’m not over excited about the new platform.

I guess if I started buying the new 40 volt stuff and acquiring a few batteries along the way, I may feel different.

Wow Makita just commited suicide

HiltiWpg wrote:

On 10/10/2019 at 7:32 AM, HiltiWpg said:

with a M18 Fuel Impact and a 9.0 battery.
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or a 12.0 

the adapter is so the LXT batteries can charge in the XGT chargers. I’m kinda disappointed. Makita was the last of the big 3 to not go to a new battery platform and they finally gave in and halfway failed. Flexvolt is a new battery platform and so is High Output but they at least work with their regular line of 18v tools. 

Jronman wrote:

6 hours ago, Jronman said:

the adapter is so the LXT batteries can charge in the XGT chargers. I’m kinda disappointed. Makita was the last of the big 3 to not go to a new battery platform and they finally gave in and halfway failed. Flexvolt is a new battery platform and so is High Output but they at least work with their regular line of 18v tools. 

I don’t see myself buying into XGT. LXT with X2 has me covered. It’s a wonderfully complete tool system that has almost all my needs covered at this point.

The ONLY shortcoming with LXT is the lack of 8Ah batteries. Lots of 18V tools could use the extra run time. I’m aware of the noise suggesting they have no intention of going that way, and it wouldn’t shock me at all if they may be of this mind right now. But even if such is the case, it’s a bad decision only for as long as they stick to it. I just don’t see any good reason for it.

Actually scratch that…the ONE reason I can see that could conceivably justify it is if they have too many tools that are so tightly spec’d to the current limits of their 18650 packs that they could fail prematurely if run on the increased current flow that 21700 cells are capable of. But that would require a lot of design oversight that would seem uncharacteristic for Makita…so i’m doubting it.

I don’t think Makita’s toying with whether or not they can manhandle buyers into picking up entire new lines of tools to the same degree some others have. They’ve already been supporting a lot of different lines around the world while growing their LXT line. They’re still entirely invested in growing their CXT line…which is nowhere near as established as LXT. They have some 2 dozen new LXT tools slated for release over the next year. So I’m not worried.

One thing that does cross my mind with XGT is if Makita’s just placating the types of buyers who are simply inflexible to the notion of sticking more than one battery pack on a tool at one time with X2. Maybe, maybe not. I see/hear those sentiments getting thrown around and frankly it usually comes off as petty. Sticking two batteries on a tool instead of one is not some high-level academic challenge. It’s an elegant solution that provides a concrete performance outcome with very little extra investment on the part of the buyer.

HiltiWpg wrote:

On 10/10/2019 at 11:32 PM, HiltiWpg said:

 

That’s not entirely true.
The popularity of 12v tools with tradespeople contradicts that.
There is a market for both to coexist.
Having 2 tiers of battery size makes more sense than increasing the size and weight of all tools for the sake of a few higher demand tools.

Eventually OSHA will regulate the size and weight of cordless power tools. I laugh every time I see guy doing trim work with a M18 Fuel Impact and a 9.0 battery.


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You are correct, that’s why I said high performance tools. One definitely wouldn’t want to be using an impact gun with a 36v or twin 18v battery setup on it 😂 but I’m sure someone would! 

Yea if I told my guys they had to use the biggest heaviest batteries they would think I was being mean.  But let them pick from a bag of 10- 5.0ah and 3- 9.0ah and its shocking how many times a 9.0 ends up on an impact driver.

There was a time I would have fought the idea of a second battery platform pretty hard.  While I still like the idea of having all my m18 batteries work with any of my m18 tools, I can see that on high demand tools the m18 just isn’t as powerful as dewalt 60v.  It’s close on the new high output tools but 60v still has an edge.  So if makita thinks they can deliver a better tool by having a different battery platform I’d say go for it.  I still can’t see why they’re holding back their 18v line by not having a higher ah battery, unless like was commented before that their existing tools can’t handle the extra power, which seems unlikely.

Is there any official statement from Makita regarding the 6ah limitation of LXT? 

I haven’t seen a statement and I recently noticed a possible clue this may not be true. On the NZ and Australia makita product pages there is a new, empty, box on the banner of the LXT battery sizes that tools are compatible with (see pic).  I think it previously stopped at 6.0, but am not positive when the change occurred. Maybe the empty box was added for aesthetics, but seems unlikely?

Jjwillac wrote:

44 minutes ago, Jjwillac said:

I haven’t seen a statement and I recently noticed a possible clue this may not be true. On the NZ and Australia makita product pages there is a new, empty, box on the banner of the LXT battery sizes that tools are compatible with (see pic).  I think it previously stopped at 6.0, but am not positive when the change occurred. Maybe the empty box was added for aesthetics, but seems unlikely?

I like this clue.

There have been other clues that have been going around like the spaces available for batteries being larger on newer X2 tools. If Makita isn’t presently planning on releasing bigger batteries, at the very least they aren’t precluding their new tools from being able to use them. 

Why 40v if they have X2 18v (36v) …I can only think they want to compete with flexvolt and larger voltage is needed with larger cells…

Framer joe wrote:

21 minutes ago, Framer joe said:

Why 40v if they have X2 18v (36v) …I can only think they want to compete with flexvolt and larger voltage is needed with larger cells…

“40v” is the same as 36v, the only difference is in marketing hype (e.g., Dewalt) or to reduce confusion between two similar lines.  Likely Makita went with 40V for XGT to distinguish the new system from the X2 36v tools.

Jjwillac wrote:

14 hours ago, Jjwillac said:

 

“40v” is the same as 36v, the only difference is in marketing hype (e.g., Dewalt) or to reduce confusion between two similar lines.  Likely Makita went with 40V for XGT to distinguish the new system from the X2 36v tools.

The other thing is Makita DOES already have a 36V battery platform…separate and before X2…that the market simply never adopted. It even had an adaptor that allowed two LXT batteries to attach to the 36V tools in an essentially X2 style.
 

In my mind the existence of that platform obviated the need for all this; they could have just slowly introduced more tools and batteries to that line. But maybe there’s more battery computer management they wanted to get in-built to the platform as a whole that would have made that direction more trouble than it’s worth.

I have just read a FAQ regarding SGT on makita.be, here’s what comes out:

1) When asked about the competition offering 9ah and 12ah battery packs, they answer that 18v 12ah batteries would be technically possible, but heavier, bigger, slower to charge and more expensive than their equivalent XGT counterpart. They are talking about 0,7 and 1 kilogram for their 2.5ah and 4ah version respectively. The 2.5ah can be fully charged in 28 minutes. 

According to them, their 40v 2.5ah weighs just a bit more than their 18v 5ah battery and less than any 18v / 9ah option currently on the market. 

2) The XGT charger will require an adapter to charge LXT batteries.

3) They will keep releasing new LXT 36 volts tools, they are aware that a lot of customers are already equipped with 18 volt batteries and definitely can’t ignore this fact. They still think that XGT 40v would nicely complement LXT for the most demanding tools.

original article (in french )

http://www.makita.be/actualite/avec-xgt-makita-lance-une-plate-forme-daccus-orientee-vers-lavenir-.html?allowCookies=1

Their 2.5 40v basically IS the 18v 5.0; even down to the 18650 cells, why would we expect it to be much heavier?

The 21700 batteries will be the only ones worth a damn imo, the 2.5 will be a joke like the FlexVolt 6.0. 

The beginning of the end for Makita. It will take a few years but this path will set them back relative to the competition. 

And for the record listen to this Makita, yep 1 big  battery makes the tool heavier. guess what in case you have not noticed so does putting 2 batteries on a tool. Just make the damn lxt batteries with the 21700 cells and shut the hell up. Stop over thinking it. 

glass wrote:

The beginning of the end for Makita. It will take a few years but this path will set them back relative to the competition. 

Makita has been making cordless tools a helluva lot longer than DeWalt and Milwaukee.

They’ll be fine.

Unlike Milwaukee, Makita doesn’t rush tools out every other month.

These new batteries are compact, lightweight and will be cost-effective.

They appear to have been very well thought out.

I am looking forward to it.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Framer joe wrote:

Why 40v if they have X2 18v (36v) …I can only think they want to compete with flexvolt and larger voltage is needed with larger cells…

HiltiWpg wrote:

2 hours ago, HiltiWpg said:

Size.

I would think they’d discontinue the 2x 18v line.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

So far they’re saying they still have more X2 tools planned and have no intention of changing that…we’ll see if that continues to be the case years down the road, but I won’t doubt it for now. Chances are if nothing else they still have some coming down the pipeline and they may as well get their return on investment. Much like the recent 12” X2 miter saw. If I were to hazard a guess, I kinda expect X2 will continue to be their high-power LXT solution for the foreseeable future.

At first a lot of the buzz about this had me a little concerned about LXT support. But thinking about it now, it’s much the opposite. They have plenty of other battery lines they toy around with around the world. They’re pretty committed it seems to growing a healthy CXT line, and there’s no reason to believe that is some threat to LXT either. This just isn’t anything to worry about for LXT users at all. Other than some might end up being really awesome and envy-inducing.

ToolBane wrote:

14 hours ago, ToolBane said:

At first a lot of the buzz about this had me a little concerned about LXT support. But thinking about it now, it’s much the opposite. They have plenty of other battery lines they toy around with around the world. They’re pretty committed it seems to growing a healthy CXT line, and there’s no reason to believe that is some threat to LXT either. This just isn’t anything to worry about for LXT users at all. Other than some might end up being really awesome and envy-inducing.

I share most of that feeling, different battery platforms can co-exist.

On the other hand, I had hoped that XGT would offer some kind of one-way backward compatibility. Dewalt and Hikoki have done a good job in this regard with their Flexvolt/Multivolt systems.

I am now hoping that 21700 cells will find their way to LXT, ideally sooner than later. I wouldn’t want XGT to be the only option for capacities beyond 100 wh. Larger tools from the Makita OPE line can certainly benefit from a couple of extra ah.

I already have tools. They are makitas. They last. I just want better batteries. I do not need more power. More run time on high drain tools. Blowers vacuums skil saws sawzals rotary drills chain saws. Etc.   get it got it good. Your not listening. 

stefcl100 wrote:

5 hours ago, stefcl100 said:

 

I share most of that feeling, different battery platforms can co-exist.

 

On the other hand, I had hoped that XGT would offer some kind of one-way backward compatibility. Dewalt and Hikoki have done a good job in this regard with their Flexvolt/Multivolt systems.

I am now hoping that 21700 cells will find their way to LXT, ideally sooner than later. I wouldn’t want XGT to be the only option for capacities beyond 100 wh. Larger tools from the Makita OPE line can certainly benefit from a couple of extra ah.

It’s entirely possible they may make an adapter similar to what they already did with their previous 36V platform that allows you to use a pair of LXT batteries on XGT tools basically X2-style. I almost think it more likely to happen than not.

glass wrote:

2 hours ago, glass said:

I already have tools. They are makitas. They last. I just want better batteries. I do not need more power. More run time on high drain tools. Blowers vacuums skil saws sawzals rotary drills chain saws. Etc.   get it got it good. Your not listening. 

We pretty much all agree. And given how meticulous the design of the XGT 4Ah battery is, it’s hard to picture Makita not already having an essentially finished 8Ah LXT battery already designed; more a question of whether or not they’re willing to now, and how long it takes if they really are hesitating needlessly as some people are speculating.

Note I am not bagging on xgt   Looks cool. I am bagging makitas lack of support to all of us lxt adopters. Their tools rock. Now get us the high demand batteries. I am a customer heavily invested in Makita. I will divest   Probably would take at 3 other manufacturers to cover what I like about my makitas. 

glass wrote:

44 minutes ago, glass said:

Probably would take at 3 other manufacturers to cover what I like about my makitas. 

At least two other brands for me

Is there any tool range comparable to Makita LXT in terms of size? 

Ryobi One+ perhaps? It may even make more sense for homeowners like me but I am not willing to be reasonable.. (.. or smart 😊). 

Isn’t LXT around 225 Tools currently? Subtract the two dozen impact drivers and M18 and 20v Max are firmly in the same territory. 

I find the backwards compatibility of the Dewalt Flexvolt very compelling and I hope that Makita at least offers some sort of adapter for their new XGT batteries so they work with some of my LXT tools.

And Dewalt makes 20 v batteries with 21700 cells 

The ideal situation is scrap xgt and just make 21700 lxt batteries but since that is not going to be the case we at the very least need two adapters one to fit an xgt battery on lxt tools and another to fit 2 xgt batteries on x2 tools.

Problem is different voltage. Such adapter had to include some step-down voltage regulator. It would be not easy with currents maybe up to 50 amps.

I really don’t understand Makita’s aversion to offer 21700 LXT batteries.

QuasarCZ wrote:

On 11/12/2019 at 5:09 AM, QuasarCZ said:

I really don’t understand Makita’s aversion to offer 21700 LXT batteries.

I was surprised to learn that a  LXT x4 mower has been announced (in fact it’s 2x18v * 2 but still)….

From the same people who are telling you that 18v / 9ah wouldn’t make sense…

stefcl100 wrote:

 
I was surprised to learn that a  LXT x4 mower has been announced (in fact it’s 2x18v * 2 but still)….
From the same people who are telling you that 18v / 9ah wouldn’t make sense…

I’d take the other approach: 9ah or 12ah can be an option for existing equipment, they absolutely don’t have to be the primary choice for every type of tool. I believe that customers are smart enough to decide which size of battery makes sense on which tool. Those using larger OPE or vacuum cleaners may benefit from extra runtime beyond the current 110-120wh limitation, those using the sub-compact series are free to stick to 1.5-3ah.

Other brands did a nice job (imho) with Flexwolt/multivolt systems, and nobody is forcing people to buy the larger Flexvolt batteries if they are happy with smaller XR packs. 

From all the possible routes, Makita chose the one that offered the least in terms of backward compatibility, let’s hope that this choice will also come with some advantages (better motors?). Fair enough, but if the questionable absence of larger LXT batteries is going to be used as the main selling argument for XGT, some people will be (legitimately) upset.

It’s funny when a company makes a poor decision. There will always be the apologists. Nothing wrong with xgt. Just make more powerful batteries for lxt. Some tools can handle The slight increase in weight like rotary hammers, blowers, miter saws, chain saws, lawn mowers. I think any of the single battery lxt tools would benefit from a 21700 5.5 amp or 6 amp battery. 
furthermore xgt is just like metabo hpt 36 volt line without the ac option. Additionally these tools max at 4 x 36 = 144 watts. 9 x 18 = 162. So right off the bat the competitors have more juice. Which means more run time. Those Bosch and metabo batteries look good. Maybe once they catch up on the tool front it’s time to leave Makita. For me it’s a waiting game. As my Makita tools eventually wear out I will evaluate and more than likely branch out. I find the Makita batteries to have marbles while others have heuvos. 

A little irony just crossed my mind…

With the batteries already available in X2 tools right now, XGT will actually have a hard time playing the part of the heavy-duty tool range. The 4Ah 40V Max XGT battery actually has less watt hours per charge than a pair of 5 or 6Ah batteries in X2. The only ways around this would be to either:

A- release an even bigger 6Ah 40V Max battery (equivalent to Milwaukee’s 12Ah 18V High Demand, or Dewalt’s 4Ah 60V Max), or…

B- create X2 variants of their XGT tools

What a conundrum for Makita I suspect this will be. It’s easy to forget that compared to X2, Flexvolt and High Demand really only barely caught up in terms of total watt hours per charge with their latest oversized batteries, and I suspect they are unlikely to be compelled to push further, at least not until the next major generation of battery technology comes out. But XGT as of this moment is actually a downgrade for high-power tools for the time being.

ToolBane wrote:

17 minutes ago, ToolBane said:

But XGT as of this moment is actually a downgrade for high-power tools for the time being.

Exactly. Increased power but decreased runtime. I’m really curios when Makita will introduce first X2 XGT tool 😀 Makita doesn’t like big batteries.

Has anyone seen or heard any new info on XGT?

The Japanese market will be the first to see it. Could easily be a year or more before we start to see them much anywhere else.

ToolBane wrote:

A little irony just crossed my mind…
 
With the batteries already available in X2 tools right now, XGT will actually have a hard time playing the part of the heavy-duty tool range. The 4Ah 40V Max XGT battery actually has less watt hours per charge than a pair of 5 or 6Ah batteries in X2. The only ways around this would be to either:
 
A- release an even bigger 6Ah 40V Max battery (equivalent to Milwaukee’s 12Ah 18V High Demand, or Dewalt’s 4Ah 60V Max), or…
 
B- create X2 variants of their XGT tools
 
What a conundrum for Makita I suspect this will be. It’s easy to forget that compared to X2, Flexvolt and High Demand really only barely caught up in terms of total watt hours per charge with their latest oversized batteries, and I suspect they are unlikely to be compelled to push further, at least not until the next major generation of battery technology comes out. But XGT as of this moment is actually a downgrade for high-power tools for the time being.

JimboS1ice wrote:

What’s funny is a few years ago when flexvolt and 9.0 Milwaukee batteries, Makita released a cute chart showing a advantage to two 5.0 batteries


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