Flexvolt

Babysaw wrote:

I dunno why you’re still in the Dewalt forum if this is how you feel? Enjoy the Hilti forum. Enjoy your tools that cost twice as much for half the productivity. Whatever dude you complained about your batteries, people come on here and give good faith examples of how you can stop damaging your tools like a maroon and your response essentially is ‘my mind is already made up and y’all are wasting your time talking to me.’
 
I set my chargers on break, switch batts at lunch. I’ve got plenty of batteries to never slow production, and if you want to compare productivity with somebody Framer Joe may have something to say. 

method wrote:

The most powerful Hilti charger available here is 350w. I doubt that would charge any high capacity battery in 15 min unless there is a much larger version available where you are? Hilti make quality tools but you do pay a lot more for them because of their service options. There is no single tool company who own the rest.  I have cordless dewalt, husqvarna, paslode, metabo, hilti, milwaukee and AEG as well as corded milwaukee, Bosch, protool, hitachi and makita and im sure ibe forgotten a few. Each tool I buy is best suited at the application I’m using it for regardless of brand. Being on multiple platforms doesn’t bother me. We use tools harder than most other contractors. I’ve burned out 3 hitachi jackhammers in one night on a job once. When I say non stop I mean finger on the trigger under fulll load cutting without stopping until the battery is flat etc.
 
If you have so many issues with batteries and tools then go for Hilti, they will deliver replacement tools and batteries to your site and service for free for two years here. All of that is built into the price of the tools and if it saves you on down time it’s paid for itself within the first two call outs. I’ve had problems with all of my tools including Hilti (except for my corded makita, protool and cordless husqvarna tools so far).

CityDecks wrote:

Good reply. I’ll make final decision between all Hilti or all Maki onxe I get my hands on new saw. My OCD will never allow me to have more then 1 platform. Not sure what model the charger is but fast and humms like a jet. It’s impossible to drain there batteries before other is fully charged.
Are you in USA?

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Didn’t even know they had hilti forum. I just posted topic to find out what others are experiencing with flexvolt

Babysaw wrote:

I dunno why you’re still in the Dewalt forum if this is how you feel? Enjoy the Hilti forum. Enjoy your tools that cost twice as much for half the productivity. Whatever dude you complained about your batteries, people come on here and give good faith examples of how you can stop damaging your tools like a maroon and your response essentially is ‘my mind is already made up and y’all are wasting your time talking to me.’
 
I set my chargers on break, switch batts at lunch. I’ve got plenty of batteries to never slow production, and if you want to compare productivity with somebody Framer Joe may have something to say. 

I’m in Australia, it gets hot here, some days over 40+. What is an OCD? 

OCD obsessive compulsive disorder….lol

method wrote:

I’m in Australia, it gets hot here, some days over 40+. What is an OCD? 

I’ll time to be exact charger that is. The fast chargeris right around 15min and standard is right around 30. And there cheap. Less the $40 for standard. Fast charger is about 65-70usd. They have a quad charger but haven’t need and too big. I run lean

CityDecks wrote:

OCD obsessive compulsive disorder….lol


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I guessed that then I thought it was some abbreviation for a boss of some sort over there 😁😁 

Putting weight aside, have you considered using bigger tools which obviously work a lot less than using small light weight tools and running them flat out? 

I don’t find weight an issue if the job is getting done easier and quicker. A lot of people disagree with that but the only time weight gets to me is using a demo saw cutting above the waist or using a jackhammer on a wall in which options are limited for both of those applications.

Yes. I have 2- impact wrenches on the list that will be dedicated for (structural screws) Simpson SDS for ledger’s and beam. That’s where DeWalt burn out over and over. Along being on rooftops cooking all day everyday in the sun. They take forever to charge and need to bring 8-10 batteries. And do the same when Cold. Some days can’t get a charge to finish phase / task in hand.

method wrote:

I guessed that then I thought it was some abbreviation for a boss of some sort over there [emoji16][emoji16] 
 
Putting weight aside, have you considered using bigger tools which obviously work a lot less than using small light weight tools and running them flat out? 
 
I don’t find weight an issue if the job is getting done easier and quicker. A lot of people disagree with that but the only time weight gets to me is using a demo saw cutting above the waist or using a jackhammer on a wall in which options are limited for both of those applications.

That’s funny I’ve done 70’ deck ledgers with 4 Simpson lags in every joist bay, ran them all in with a Dewalt 886 impact driver and it never got past warm. With one 4ah battery. 

Edit:

i suppose the the moral of the story is if you don’t take care of your shit it won’t take care of you

The new/upcoming Bosch charger is a 16 amp charger. Highest amp charger I have seen. My DeWALT chargers do the job. Dual charger to top off the Flexvolt batteries is good enough. Always on the shelf in the garage ready to charge them after work.

Jronman wrote:

1 minute ago, Jronman said:

The new/upcoming Bosch charger is a 16 amp charger. Highest amp charger I have seen. My DeWALT chargers do the job. Dual charger to top off the Flexvolt batteries is good enough. Always on the shelf in the garage ready to charge them after work.

16?!?! That’s crazy!

ChrisK wrote:

14 minutes ago, ChrisK said:

16?!?! That’s crazy!

Sure is! Now that will charge a high capacity batt in no time!

And trip all kinds of breakers…. just sayin’

@dilloncorr DeWALT’s new 4 bay fast charger would be 32 amps then. It would trip the breaker no?

method wrote:

On 10/27/2018 at 8:41 PM, method said:

Sure is! Now that will charge a high capacity batt in no time!

50% capacity in 9 mins for 4.0 slims and 15 mins for 8.0 fat packs.

dilloncorr wrote:

12 hours ago, dilloncorr said:

And trip all kinds of breakers…. just sayin’

Jronman wrote:

1 hour ago, Jronman said:

@dilloncorr DeWALT’s new 4 bay fast charger would be 32 amps then. It would trip the breaker no?

Output is 16 amps. Input to the charger is less. Just like Dewalt’s 4 bay output is 8 amps per bay but charger only draws 8 amps total from the wall for all 4 bays combined. The Bosch probably sucks 4 amps out of the wall. 

Babysaw wrote:

On 10/27/2018 at 7:29 PM, Babysaw said:

That’s funny I’ve done 70’ deck ledgers with 4 Simpson lags in every joist bay, ran them all in with a Dewalt 886 impact driver and it never got past warm. With one 4ah battery. 

 

Edit:

 

i suppose the the moral of the story is if you don’t take care of your shit it won’t take care of you

Yeah I’ve built projects at work with hundreds of 6” screws; got an 887 hot enough to burn skin but never hot enough to make the impact quit. Only Dewalt we’ve ever killed was old brushed trash that was abused. 

Hopefully we can be kept up to date in the Hilti forum when they release new cordless goodies like the new FlexVolt mud mixer, DCD470 FlexVolt super (duper) Hawg, 20v goodies like the new heat gun. But hey; they’re getting a new rear handle years after everyone else so that’s cool. At least Makita is an alternative with a real range (like the updated metal cutting saws, paddle broom attachment for the ope motor unit). 

Jronman wrote:

2 hours ago, Jronman said:

@dilloncorr DeWALT’s new 4 bay fast charger would be 32 amps then. It would trip the breaker no?

32 amps is the output not the input. The voltage is already reduced from 120v to 20v at that point so you can push a lot more current without tripping the breaker. 

You have to look at it in terms of power not amps. A 15A breaker will trip when the instantaneous power goes over 120v *15a = 1800 W. If you are charging 20v batteries, it means you got 1800W/20V = 60A avaible not 15A. Of course, this is just an approximation since we are not taking in account the energy loss by the power supply and other stuff, but it gives you an idea of what’s possible. The problem is not the current availabe but the heat build up with these high currents. You need some ventilation to clear it out.

@CityDecks…i don’t know what brand  would sink that many 6″ lags ..200-300 in high heat, Definitely not the 877….maybe bump up to a mid torque wrench or HD impact wrench…..

…..we use t40 flat head 5-7″ lags (fastenmaster) into 3 or 4 or -5 ply engineered lumber beams…with the 899…no problems…..

…..I can’t see any impact driver doing that for long… gotta be an impact wrench……love to know how it works out for you…

Sounds more like an impact wrench job y

Yes. Impact wrench. Going with full Hilti. Sick package out together from my rep. Sick.

kornomaniac wrote:

Sounds more like an impact wrench job y

Hilti impact wrenches are old and ‘ meh ‘ tho 😛

kornomaniac wrote:

Hilti impact wrenches are old and ‘ meh ‘ tho [emoji14]

Especially for $280 CAD.

https://www.hilti.ca/cordless-systems/cordless-impact-drivers-and-wrenches/r4265

https://www.hilti.ca/cordless-systems/cordless-impact-drivers-and-wrenches/r4659308

(I know they are half the power of the Makita brushless, sarcasm obviously.)

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kornomaniac wrote:

15 hours ago, kornomaniac said:

Hilti impact wrenches are old and ‘ meh ‘ tho 😛

What are you talking about “old” it says right on it that it’s new.  It’s a SIW 22T-A and it used to be a SIW 18T-A haha.  I’m sure it’s a fine tool just pretty big in size and weight for the torque it puts out.

You guy’s are hysterical.

Biggie wrote:

What are you talking about “old” it says right on it that it’s new.  It’s a SIW 22T-A and it used to be a SIW 18T-A haha.  I’m sure it’s a fine tool just pretty big in size and weight for the torque it puts out.

CityDecks wrote:

You guy’s are hysterical.


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CityDecks wrote:

Test is in workshttp://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5bdb8e68047a5/KVID1109.mp4

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Biggie wrote:

7 hours ago, Biggie said:

What are you talking about “old” it says right on it that it’s new.  It’s a SIW 22T-A and it used to be a SIW 18T-A haha.  I’m sure it’s a fine tool just pretty big in size and weight for the torque it puts out.

Ow sorry didn’t notice the number changed ! Carry on then 😀

In regards to the heat in the batteris –

I played around and cut a 450mm H beam today. To complete the cut I went through two 6ah flexvolt batteries in the DCS690 and half of one full charge of 7ah LiHD batteries on the metabo WPB 36-18 LTX BL 230. When comparing the two one directly after the other, the Metabo has a lot more power when the dewalt is running the 6.0’s, in saying that though, the dewalt has great power too and definitely has more power when I put a 9.0 in.

The metabo can be pushed harder, but is more awkward to vertically cut with, and the dewalt is much more comfortable to use vertically and cuts slightly deeper. Horizontally it’s the other way around, except for depth of cut obviously.

The metabo batteries got warm, but not as warm as the flexvolt batteries, both packs were too hot to charge as in the photo below. The dewalt batteries also get hotter due to them being fully enclosed in the tool with its water and dust tight seal. The 9.0 got just as hot when I did another cut. After a few minutes on the charger both started to charge. It was also 32 degrees here today. I’d find it hard to believe that the batteries would get as hot as they did using these tools when using an impact driver.

I’ve used my AEG and milwaukee impact drivers to screw 12mm coach screws into redgum non stop with 5ah batteties until flat when i put up my retainer walls and the tool nor battery got hot enough to worry about, pre drilled of course. I’m wondering what it is that is causing you so much grief when you say you always have several out for repair?

Here is a quicker method of cutting the beams today (there is actually 2 x 450mm H beams in that cut) if only it was cordless and didn’t weigh so much 😄

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ap5wHcMpyIC-hZsf9RbB50Ne6zQJAQ

Forgot to mention my batteries go straight onto the chargers once drained, regardless of heat and are always stored fully charged.

Did you need both the flexvolt batteries and half the charge on the metabo for 1 cut ? O_o

That’s correct, but keeping in mind the flexvolt 6 is 108wh, so 216wh for the two batteries and the metabo 2 x 18 is 252wh.

Also it’s approximately 800mm of cutting an average of 12mm steel. The section is approx 11mm and the flanges are approx 13mm. I only had 2.2mm cutting wheels also, I had run out of the 1.9mm discs. That makes quite a difference in run time.

Pouet wrote:

On 10/31/2018 at 11:48 AM, Pouet said:

32 amps is the output not the input. The voltage is already reduced from 120v to 20v at that point so you can push a lot more current without tripping the breaker. 

 

You have to look at it in terms of power not amps. A 15A breaker will trip when the instantaneous power goes over 120v *15a = 1800 W. If you are charging 20v batteries, it means you got 1800W/20V = 60A avaible not 15A. Of course, this is just an approximation since we are not taking in account the energy loss by the power supply and other stuff, but it gives you an idea of what’s possible. The problem is not the current availabe but the heat build up with these high currents. You need some ventilation to clear it out.

Ah. Duh. That’s what I get for responding too fast and not thinking!! 

I have been wondering why they don’t make a dedicated flexvolt charger charging at 60v? Seems like it would charge faster… or is this another poor understanding of electronics on my part?

dilloncorr wrote:

18 hours ago, dilloncorr said:

Ah. Duh. That’s what I get for responding too fast and not thinking!! 

 

I have been wondering why they don’t make a dedicated flexvolt charger charging at 60v? Seems like it would charge faster… or is this another poor understanding of electronics on my part?

54v at 4 amps would be the same charge rate as 18v at 12 amps.  DeWalt could even push the 20700 cells to 6 amps or 18 amps at 18v for 9ah flexvolts.  It would be great for charge times but might wear the batteries faster.

TrimmerMatt wrote:

5 hours ago, TrimmerMatt said:

 

54v at 4 amps would be the same charge rate as 18v at 12 amps

Exactly, the power coming out of your wall is going to be the same either way

Also if everyone had to buy a separate charger on top of everything else it just makes Flexvolt look even more like an entirely different platform than it already is

No one wants us to have fast charging, that way we all have to buy more batteries which have the highest margins 😝

Did you ever end up timing the charger? If it charges a high capacity battery in 15min what was the model number? 

method wrote:

Did you ever end up timing the charger? If it charges a high capacity battery in 15min what was the model number? 

Like I mentioned before it is impossible to drain a battery before other is charged. New saw should be in any day now also got to there cordless barrel grip jig saw coming in Jan

CityDecks wrote:

Yes. 35+/- min on pic. The other one us faster and these are bigger 5.2 batteries[External image (uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com), not copied][External image (uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com), not copied]

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That charger is only 4 amp output. It’s not fast, that’s for sure.

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Was just about to say the same thing. It’s a normal charger, nothing special. You were only 20min off your original estimate 😄

Not for standard charger. Off by 5 min +/- off. And let’s keep in I did not sit there drinking coffee and watching it.
Dewalt never less the 1/hr. Maki 45/min. Hilti 30+/- on standard and approximately 15/min faster in hilti 22v is dam Good.
Recently did test in shop between Hilti and Maki impact drivers. With 70 – 5″*1/4″ Simpson sds lag’s Maki was getting pretty hot in handle and down to 2/bars on battery with 5.0amp. Hilti was just shy of full 4/bars and barly warm at bit tip area. Speed was dm close between the two. Not saying Maki is bad but would fail soon so impact wrench is absolutely needed to keep pumping.

.

method wrote:

Was just about to say the same thing. It’s a normal charger, nothing special. You were only 20min off your original estimate [emoji1]

DeWalt’s rapid charger is 8 amp output and fan cooled so it cools the batteries too. 2x rate of the Hilti.
Makita rapid is 8 amp output.
Hitachi/Metabo HPT charger is 9 amp. Bosch rapid is 8 amp output with a 16 amp output charger coming next year with boost mode.

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So if dewalt and Hilti both 4amp chargers doesn’t that mean for instance if 2 identical batteries were placed in the chargers they would charge at the same rate ?

What formula makes the hilti faster 4amp charger+Hilti Nostalgia = Fastest in the market ?

CityDeck claims never under an 1hr for dewalt 4amp but Hilti 4amp charges in 35 mins. Either the dewalt batteries your using are bigger than your Hilti’s or your just as I assumed biased against dewalt and for Hilti.

This F’in guy 

No idea but it does.

JakeDewalt wrote:

So if dewalt and Hilti both 4amp chargers doesn’t that mean for instance if 2 identical batteries were placed in the chargers they would charge at the same rate ?
 
What formula makes the hilti faster 4amp charger+Hilti Nostalgia = Fastest in the market ?
 
CityDeck claims never under an 1hr for dewalt 4amp but Hilti 4amp charges in 35 mins. Either the dewalt batteries your using are bigger than your Hilti’s or your just as I assumed biased against dewalt and for Hilti.
 

It’s been a long wait coming

The.Handyman wrote:

DeWalt’s rapid charger is 8 amp output and fan cooled so it cools the batteries too. 2x rate of the Hilti.
Makita rapid is 8 amp output.
Hitachi/Metabo HPT charger is 9 amp. Bosch rapid is 8 amp output with a 16 amp output charger coming next year with boost mode.

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Flexvolt 6.0 amp and 5.0 still take an HR Even there fan cooled charger.

JakeDewalt wrote:

So if dewalt and Hilti both 4amp chargers doesn’t that mean for instance if 2 identical batteries were placed in the chargers they would charge at the same rate ?
 
What formula makes the hilti faster 4amp charger+Hilti Nostalgia = Fastest in the market ?
 
CityDeck claims never under an 1hr for dewalt 4amp but Hilti 4amp charges in 35 mins. Either the dewalt batteries your using are bigger than your Hilti’s or your just as I assumed biased against dewalt and for Hilti.
 

And your point

Babysaw wrote:

This F’in guy 

CityDecks wrote:

2 hours ago, CityDecks said:

No idea but it does.

 

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Umm. No just no 

You’ve probably got a bad Hilti battery. 

One of my new 3.0ah Hitachi batteries charges from flat to full in only 5 minutes! 

Hitachi have very fast fan cooled chargers, but I’m going to use common sense in this case. It’s a bad battery. It likely ran too flat while in storage. I’ve had the same happen with individual 18650 cells I use for flashlights.