Why DeWalt? Why Not?

I’m genuinely curious as to why you decided to go with DeWalt tools (or why you didn’t), as well as what you feel their strengths and weaknesses are.  I will be posting similar threads in the Milwaukee and Ridgid forums as I own a number of their tools, but will leave the other brands out for now–feel free to start your own in those forums if this subject piques your curiosity…

As for me, it was simple, I was kind of indoctrinated.  The first guy who took a chance on a 17-year-old high school dropout used B&D and DeWalt tools exclusively (there was some blurring between the brands back then).  He hired me for his small gutter business, which manufactures hinge systems his father designed and which he and a couple of helpers installed.  A few years later, my brother began investing in 18v tools, using them for various businesses and the trades he worked in.  I had it pounded into me that Yellow simply belonged on the jobsite.  To be fair, though, it was my quest for deals that really got me started down the path I’ve been on.  Cheap 12v Max batteries coupled with a clearance Bluetooth speaker were the gateway to a very substantial number of 12/20/60/120v Max purchases.

For me.  I had a Ryobi set that served me well for about 4 years but then the tools started giving out when working on my fence and then the deck.  I decided that I would prefer something with a little more longevity.  I have both a Lowes and a Home Depot around me but wanted to stay away from a “Store Brand” so that I could find the items for the devices even if I move to where only one of those stores exist.  I had some others that I knew with Dewalt equipment for years so decided to make the switch as it met my criteria.  

First it was their OMT. I sold my Metabo OMT to get it. The trigger style was mostly appealing, but it also weighed a lot less than the Metabo. Then once I was into the line, I started looking at the other tools and eventually got a DCD796 hammer drill. I didn’t need it, I already owned 2 other drills, but the ergonomics felt great and I just couldn’t leave the store without it. Since then, I always try to get a tool in Dewalt first, but also have Metabo and Makita. The ergonomics and build quality are great. I also don’t mind the yellow colour anymore (I prefer it over the teal, but not over the Metabo forest green or Makita black). I don’t really know why, but I love using all the Dewalt tools I have. It might sound weird to say, but Dewalt tools seem more like a working tool than other brands. 

Pros:

-Ergonomics

-Build quality 

-Availability 

-Tool release frequency (not too often, not too infrequent) 

-Lightweight tools relative to other brands

-High performing tools, often in the top 2

Cons:

-Build quality can be randomly poor sometimes? (I bought a made in Mexico DCD791 that was terrible) 

-No decent 12V line

-Batteries work fine but look cheap and toy like

-Now have an air cooled charger but it’s not on the same level of technology as Makita and Metabo (who can circulate air through the inside of the batteries) 

I’m sure I’ll think of more later. 

I bough my first Dewalt tool two years ago just before Flexvolt was announced. Couple of reasons. Really loved the ergonomics, they were offering some cordless nailers which I was really interested in, they had a good selection of wood focused tools and they are not super expensive. 

I was also interested in Milwaukee but I decided to go yellow because the tools were more expensive and they have some sort of exclusive deal with Home Depot here. Dewalt is sold everywhere so it’s much easier to find great deals while Home Depot tools are pricier than anywhere one else in Canada so I was not interested in buying my tools from them. Of course, you can always buy online or from a tool dealer but your choices are more limited. I may buy into Milwauke 12v in the future though, especially for their plumbing tools. 

I wasn’t really interested in Makita because I was under the impression they were more interested in being ‘first’ them producing great tools (which is wrong, Makita tools are great quality). They had like 5 different impacts and I don’t like when a brand does that. It really get confusing and their web site is not helping.

I was also interested in Bosch but their lineup is so behind what’s available in Europe and elsewhere that it wasn’t making any sense to go down that road.

Dewalt was the second brand I bought into. Years of seeing them on sites (18b Nicad) and only a modest 20v lineup had me thinking they were has-beens stuck in the past. If you go back a few years to my earliest posts here there is likely a lot of posts mocking Dewalt for their footdragging. When FlexVolt was announced and they released more brushless 20v Max they gave me whiplash. I sold a handful of my Fuel tools and then picked and chose what was best from red and yellow. Dewalt makes up about 50% of my power tool collection now. FlexVolt mitre saw and table saw were what convinced me I needed Dewalt, and the FlexVolt grinder and circ saw were my first replacements for the Milwaukee equivalents I sold. I’ve been extremely happy with the build quality on Dewalt, and you can get batteries for a reasonable price. I feel like Milwaukee makes higher quality batteries but you pay a premium for them. I like that Dewalt listens to feedback; new batches of FlexVolt circ saws have rafter hooks, newer Dewalt tools have rubber nubs on the battery mounts like Makita tools so you don’t wear out the contacts so fast. The battery release mechanism feels cheaper to me than Makita or Milwaukee though. 

I am up to 22 20v and 60v tools, I guess I got into them because I always liked using them when I had a chance. Saw a good deal one time for a kit, picked it up and and I was hooked

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

1. Flexvolt.

Most tradies use Makita in NZ for many good reasons. However, 56v circular saw was my first leap away from the comfort zone and brand loyalty. I was blown away with its cross cut and rip capacity of stress grade timbers. The saw continues to exceed everyone’s expectation on site.

2. Gasless 16g brad nailer.

I was sick of Paslode because the gas cannisters would expire rapidly and harder to get a spare one in contrast to the framing gas cannisters. So I went with 18v XR brad nailer. It is on the heavy side but I don’t have to worry about gas and less likely of misfire.

3. Toughsystem storage.

You can’t beat this system when it comes to durability. It can withstand a lot of site abuses and weather elements.

My three reasons for expanding into the black and yellow.

DeWalt was my default just because it was one of my dad’s defaults growing up. The extra solidity of their tools over the other stuff he had (Ryobi and B+D) ended up dictating most of my buying decisions when I started to collect my own: where you can afford it and it makes sense go for Dewalt. For corded tools that was how I rolled.

When battery tools came along frankly I avoided that moneysink as long as I could. I have a lot of hobbies including radio control models and was pretty in tune to how much batteries were going to be changing over coming years. I knew a lot of early battery platforms would prove to be temporary and not worth burning money on especially for a DIY guy who pays very close attention to longevity.

Dewalt had the 18-20V thing and now this Flexvolt thing going on. The general look of it made me question how committed they were to the long-term stability of their platform vs how much they were banking on using customer loyalty to drive sales with unnecessary format changes. So I started to look elsewhere and have gone to Makita for my cordless stuff.

I didn’t have much experience with power tools growing up. My dad had a corded craftsman drill and circular saw then replaced the drill with a cordless Black and Decker. I don’t think he had any other power tools back then that I can remember. In high school we had various DeWALT cordless drills and I liked them. This was probably my first experience with DeWALT. Then in college they had DeWALT as well. A guy was asking me about tools I needed and I thought a drill would be nice to have. He asked if I was going to get a DeWALT and I figured I probably would. I didn’t have much knowledge on anything else. Maybe a week later after he talked to me he shows up to my house and gifted me a DeWALT drill/impact set. I have stuck with the DeWALT line since. I have since gotten into Ego for my ope needs and I have 2 items from the m12 line but I am not really looking at anything else in the m12 line right now. I plan to get into Festool soon.

My first drill was a dewalt 12volt my dad gave me when he bought a new one. The batteries hardly worked, but it still had more power than my bosses Bosch drill. That was years ago. Since then I started by picking up a 777, then an 885, then somebody donated a busted 886 to me. Ereplacementparts is awesome. 15 bucks later the 86 was running perfect and I had spares for next time. A few months ago I picked up a 575, and opinions on my framing crew were pretty low. For them if it ain’t a magnesium worm drive it ain’t shit, however now all day every day I hear “Where’s BabySaw? Pass me up Babysaw. I need Babysaw.” We build custom homes and my saw is now easily the most used saw at any of our sites. Power, ease of use and versatility are great, especially after chucking the blade it came with. Diablo! 

Next up up for me is the planer, jigsaw, multi master and a sawzall. Acme tools has a free battery promo right now I’d like to jump on! 

Babysaw lol I’m going to start using that for 575 when I finally buy a 577. 

Dewalt mitresaws. Circular and  tablesaws have been on every job site since I started. ( some other brands mixed in,like skilsaw circ saws) The quality of those tools always impressed me. I didn’t have Cordless tools until the 20v max line, I wasn’t impressed with Nicad performance by anyone.

     The grip of the 20v line was awesome. I read the specs and it beat or matched everyone at the time…that and Dewalts reputation for reliability sold me. Love the red and black colors,but Milwaukee didn’t have Construction tools, Makita had a big line ,( no fuel gauges) Hitachi had a good rep.for corded tools.

     Dewalt doesn’t complete their line of tools,it’s aggravating, their slow on new tools , but when they.do come out it’s generally revolutionary and takes years for anyone to come close to the same power or quality. Flexvolt is the only line that is actually better then corded power tools. It changed everything. Every framer I know uses the Flexvolt line. The 575 and 577 are sick. Hybrid mitresaw awesome. It’s what all construction guys have been waiting for. 

     Even Dewalts 899 beat Milwaukee’s until the recent gen 2 beast…I bought into Dewalt 12v and then no more tools came, I love my M12  Tools, also love my Bosch 12vv ( they both have tools that the other doesn’t)…..I don’t like Ridgid tools or batteries. Ryobi makes things no one has, so I love it, Love my Festool tools…

     As it’s said ….Dewalt is for construction/carpentry…Milwaukee for plumbing/hvac…and all others fill the gaps. Makita is also a strong line …

Babysaw wrote:

13 hours ago, Babysaw said:

My first drill was a dewalt 12volt my dad gave me when he bought a new one. The batteries hardly worked, but it still had more power than my bosses Bosch drill. That was years ago. Since then I started by picking up a 777, then an 885, then somebody donated a busted 886 to me. Ereplacementparts is awesome. 15 bucks later the 86 was running perfect and I had spares for next time. A few months ago I picked up a 575, and opinions on my framing crew were pretty low. For them if it ain’t a magnesium worm drive it ain’t shit, however now all day every day I hear “Where’s BabySaw? Pass me up Babysaw. I need Babysaw.” We build custom homes and my saw is now easily the most used saw at any of our sites. Power, ease of use and versatility are great, especially after chucking the blade it came with. Diablo! 

 

Next up up for me is the planer, jigsaw, multi master and a sawzall. Acme tools has a free battery promo right now I’d like to jump on! 

Nice. You going to also get the Flex worm style saw?

For me it was pretty easy. I use DeWalt because my dad uses DeWalt. 

jkeating3 wrote:

57 minutes ago, jkeating3 said:

For me it was pretty easy. I use DeWalt because my dad uses DeWalt. 

‘Nuff said there!!!!

Jronman wrote:

On 5/17/2018 at 7:38 PM, Jronman said:

Nice. You going to also get the Flex worm style saw?

I doubt it, the 575 has yet to fail me and I’m not a fan of the 577’s size and weight. 

I have tried several brands. 

I’ve had some DeWalt tools since they rebranded from Black and Decker Professional.

I had some Hitatchi.  They didn’t last very long.  Both the drill and impact got very hot.  Then, one day, one of them started smoking.

I had some Makita.  Really liked the tools.  Bought quite a few.  Then the batteries wouldn’t charge.  I had batteries lasting 6 months or less.  I talked to Makita.  They said I was the only one experiencing this problem.

I bought some Milwaukee.  The batteries were good, but there were some small details that I didn’t like.  The impact for example, the trigger would get stuck, slightly.  I could hear a faint, high pitched noise.  Realized the light was on all the time.  The grip is slightly different than DeWalt.  My hand would slide down, the grip, a small amount.  After a little bit, I was pushing on the bottom edge of the trigger.  The impact also only had 1 led compared to DeWalt’s 3 led.  The Milwaukee drill just didn’t have as much power as the DeWalt.  i had solid proof, on the job.  We were using a paddle to mix up some mortar, in a 5 gallon bucket.  The Milwaukee wouldn’t turn.  Unchucked it and put the DeWalt on.  The DeWalt had no problem.

Final nail in the coffin.  Fastenal had a buy one get one free sale.  Trade in any 18v tool for a new DeWalt tool and get another DeWalt tool for free.  We traded in all of our 18v tools.  56 total.  Bought all new DeWalt kits and got another kit for free.  The factory rep even let me pick a few different tools, so I didn’t end up with 6 impacts.  It was a really good deal.

That was 3 years ago and we’ve only had one battery go bad.  We work our tools, hard.  No complaints.

I’ve owned DeWalt power tools but currently own Makita and Milwaukee. I think DeWalt’s power tools are very good, but the forward/reverse switches on their drills and impacts are too far ahead near the front of the tool to switch as easily as most other brands, which is a shame as the handles are among the most ergonomic.

I used to own their 12v tools and watched as they remained utterly stagnant in that platform year after year while Milwaukee ran circles around them. I asked why they no longer supported that platform and was told they were still being “supported” (i.e. still available for purchase) but they wouldn’t address WHY they abandoned any type of advancement. Ditto for their 8v platform. 

I’m not a fan of their “20v Max” nomenclature (ditto for the rest of the SBD platforms such as PC, B&D, Bostitch, etc.) and having worked at Lowe’s it became extremely tedious having to explain it away as a marketing gimmick to casuals who figured it meant moah powah than the 18v competitors. 

The fact that they’re seemingly content to put a cap on their 20v Max platform’s potential to shift the heavier duty tools to FlexVolt is a concern. Why not come out with a more potent brushless reciprocating saw in the 20v Max category? Ditto impact wrenches, etc.

In general I just find myself questioning how committed they truly are to 20v Max innovation in both the short and long run. Just my .02

I have no problems with dewalt. 8- impacts. 2- Lefty cordless skilsaw. 4- 6.5″trim saws. 15 g trim gun. 3 highspeet hammer drill combos. Multi cutters bansaw. They get damaged dropped kire then failure. Dewalt Shop is 2 miles away. Drop off repair or replace them for very lil money or none depending on warranty or what’s Left on it. My set up is Hilti. Impacts and6.5″ sirc sawbare my go toob and are bullet proof. Longest lasting fastest charged batter’s (15-20min) Hilti store is about 1.5miles other way from dewalt. Again drop off repair in 24-48hrs Never more or send back New one. In a pinch they give me one too use until other is fixed. If they had bigger line of cordless I would go all Hilti.

D W wrote:

First it was their OMT. I sold my Metabo OMT to get it. The trigger style was mostly appealing, but it also weighed a lot less than the Metabo. Then once I was into the line, I started looking at the other tools and eventually got a DCD796 hammer drill. I didn’t need it, I already owned 2 other drills, but the ergonomics felt great and I just couldn’t leave the store without it. Since then, I always try to get a tool in Dewalt first, but also have Metabo and Makita. The ergonomics and build quality are great. I also don’t mind the yellow colour anymore (I prefer it over the teal, but not over the Metabo forest green or Makita black). I don’t really know why, but I love using all the Dewalt tools I have. It might sound weird to say, but Dewalt tools seem more like a working tool than other brands. 
 
 
Pros:
-Ergonomics
-Build quality 
-Availability 
-Tool release frequency (not too often, not too infrequent) 
-Lightweight tools relative to other brands
-High performing tools, often in the top 2
 
Cons:
-Build quality can be randomly poor sometimes? (I bought a made in Mexico DCD791 that was terrible) 
-No decent 12V line
-Batteries work fine but look cheap and toy like
-Now have an air cooled charger but it’s not on the same level of technology as Makita and Metabo (who can circulate air through the inside of the batteries) 
 
 
I’m sure I’ll think of more later. 

@aabee I think they’re quite committed to 20v Max. I agree that their naming conventions are stupid, but 20v Max is their largest line and gets tons of new tools. It’s not that much different than the path M18 is taking forward where there are basically tools before and after the High Output batteries; the old batteries will still run the new tools but in realistic terms the new more powerful tools are meant to be used with the new more powerful batteries. 

I don’t dislike Dewalt tools, I own several corded ones but when it came to choosing a cordless platform I didn’t choose to put my investment into Dewalt for a couple of fundamental reasons. First I didn’t like that they chose to rate their drills in UWO rather than the industry standard IN/LB or FT/LB simply so that the consumer could not readily compare “apples to apples”. Even if it is perhaps a better method it fails to offer the consumer the tools to make an informed decision. Doing so appears to be a deliberate decision to confuse the buying public, perhaps in their favor, perhaps not. Secondly the marketing decision to rate their 18V batteries as 20V Max which is not in accordance with the industry standard in how battery output is defined as being measured and labeled (using the nominal voltage output delivered over the life of the charge), it is purposefully deceiving to the buying public again to what end I wonder? And then there is the regular planned obsolescence of their battery platforms, where 20V Max is now at the beginning of its end while they usher in a very nice (but also very complex) and expensive 60V Flexvolt system which is not backward compatible, oops! I’m sure they didn’t intend to do that!  There’s also the tragic business decision Dewalt made to basically cease development of their 12V cordless system, I believe there is real value in that platform, clearly Bosch and Milwaukee appear to be thriving within this platform. These are many of the reasons I chose to invest in a different company when the time came for me to decide where to invest thousands of my hard earned dollars.  My general perception based heavily on the above information and much more was that Dewalt displayed a regular and consistent message of deception to the buying consumer and it was not an ideal that I felt comfortable buying into. That’s not to say I haven’t had periods of “tool envy” when Dewalt introduces tools that are not available from the brand I eventually bought into, it doesn’t happen often but it still hurts! At least I can take comfort in the fact that this phenomenon exists amongst all brand loyalists…the real tragedy is Dewalt makes excellent products that I’m sure are at or near the top in most product lines which makes their persistent and repeated decision to deceive the consumer even more perplexing and in my opinion completely unnecessary.

I bought my Dewalt DWX726 stand through a third party vendor off of eBay, an unofficial seller. It was missing some bolts and the like. I called Dewalt, they ordered the parts and sent them to me for FREE.  Three months ago, one of my 60v batteries crapped out. I bought the 60v Circe saw on our forum from a great member, not an authorized seller. I called over to Dewalt and they sent me a brand new 60v battery for FREE.  I guess I like the commitment Dewalt has to their customers and the Research and Development they put in their tools. No proof of purchase, no receipts, no nothing. Just a call. They stand behind their products. And they are doing the whole global materials made here…I know that is a sensitive spot here but I like knowing that several of my Dewalt are assembled here. It might not be that big a deal to some, but it is to me. Kind of like my 2017 Toyota Tundra SR5/TRD Crewmax. Sure it’s Japanese but it was made in Texas. I like that.  

Milwaukee arguably has the best warranty in the business, of course I have had to use that warranty several times with brand new tools which made me change course and buy into Dewalt. Now I have some very specific Milwaukee tools to fit very specific purposes and am pretty happy with these purchases. Milwaukee has stepped up over the years and has really begun to put some quality work in their tool lineup. 

Remember when Milwaukee pushed out the V18 tools and then abruptly cancelled the lineup and went with the M18 lineup. Interestingly enough, they didn’t cancel the M28lineup completely but have limited the lineup.

Dewalt continues to support the original 18v lineup and even developed a conversion kit to power 18v tools with the 20v lineup. They added a 40v OPE lineup and developed the first multi volt battery system with the 60v lineup. True, you cannot power the 60v tools with the 20v batteries but…the other way works just fine and adds a ton more run time.

I guess everyone on this forum is polarized from one company to another. I’m not, that’s why I have like 20 different chargers on my rack. If you ask me Dewalt makes awesome tools. Period.  So does Ryobi. So does Milwaukee. So does Makita. So does Hitachi and on and on and on….And thus far I have no issues with any of the tool manufacturers I use. To the OP, @fm2176 I tried to go with one battery system, it just ain’t possible. Dewalt makes awesome tools. And a lot of them are made here. That’s pretty cool. Milwaukee is doing that now too. Pretty darn cool. But they don’t make ALL the tools. I wishe Dewalt kept the 12v tools coming, maybe they still will, maybe not. And to note, besides my Dewalt 20v nailers, the next group of nailers that I like and trust are lime green and made by Ryobi, not Milwaukee. Not Makita, not Hitachi and not Bosch. But alas, I have three Dewalt 20v nailers…the two speed framer, the 18g bradder and the 16g finish. I use them and have developed an opinion of them. They are sooooooooo sweet. My brother is a pro plumber and LOVES Milwaukee. He does not use any other tools till he drops into my shop and tries to grab my Festools…I don’t think so little bro…I don’t think so 😎

Just my two cents bro.

OldDominionDIYer wrote:

2 hours ago, OldDominionDIYer said:

Secondly the marketing decision to rate their 18V batteries as 20V Max which is not in accordance with the industry standard in how battery output is defined as being measured and labeled (using the nominal voltage output delivered over the life of the charge), it is purposefully deceiving to the buying public again to what end I wonder?

Did you know that every brand does the same thing with their 12V marketing? It’s 10.8V nominal and 12V max. 

M10.8 doesn’t have the same buzz that M12 does. Milwaukee is the worst offender. At least Makita and Bosch use “12V Max”, Milwaukee just claim 12V.

I know they all deceive to some degree, but Dewalt are angels compared to Milwaukee.

For me the biggest thing for Dewalt is ergonomics. Every time I pick up something from another brand I feel like I get dropped off in 1989. 

I’ve had very few tool failures and no battery failures in the last 11 years. Reliability is key to making money. 

That said, Dewalt makes, consistently, the most worthless, punishing reciprocating saws to have ever existed. If this is a key tool for you…run. I have one of the compacts that sits on a shelf in my tool trailer. The only reason I keep it there is because when the day comes that Dewalt actually produces something that isn’t complete dog shit, I’m going to take that medieval torture device out, set it on the concrete, and beat it with a sledgehammer until it’s not yellow anymore. 

ChrisK that was a great rebuttal. 

for me, there are plenty of valid reasons to choose another brand of power tool over dewalt. Price, how hard you push your equipment, innovation etc but being salty about a brand slogan is silly. You’re only punishing yourself. 

I am fully aware that all the companies use 12V instead of 10.8V and for the consumer it is transparent because they all do it, so there is no disparity therefore no confusion, but when one company choses to label the batteries differently (B&D Group) they are clearly doing it to deceive and no other reason.  You say Milwaukee is the “worst offender” yet you fail too mention even one factual example of their bad behavior.  I understand brand loyalty and I get it, but a little honesty wouldn’t hurt.  I readily admitted that Dewalt makes great tools, but it is a personal decision for me not to reward them for their blatant deceptive advertising, especially since they don’t seem to have any real reason to do it, unless perhaps they actually do? 

Really? You haven’t walked into a Home Depot and seen a wall of Milwaukee products that claim “50x life” “3x cuts” “4x blade life” etc. etc. etc. or all the comparisons on Milwaukee boxes comparing their tools to “competitors” where the comparison is made to old outdated brushed tools and not the top of the line teal or yellow equivalents? Or Milwaukee’s power numbers; ie isn’t the premium Makita drill stronger than the 2704 despite having around 10 ft lbs less torque? Compared to the competition Milwaukee is a marketing company that makes tools. I say that as someone who owns and uses a ton of Fuel gear. 

The extent of Dewalt’s lying is basically maximum voltage vs nominal voltage, and if 20 being a bigger number than 18 was enough to fool you, or 60 over 54 then it would behoove you to read the disclaimer on the box next to the asterisk. 

OldDominionDIYer wrote:

1 hour ago, OldDominionDIYer said:

I am fully aware that all the companies use 12V instead of 10.8V and for the consumer it is transparent because they all do it, so there is no disparity therefore no confusion, but when one company choses to label the batteries differently (B&D Group) they are clearly doing it to deceive and no other reason.  You say Milwaukee is the “worst offender” yet you fail too mention even one factual example of their bad behavior.  I understand brand loyalty and I get it, but a little honesty wouldn’t hurt.  I readily admitted that Dewalt makes great tools, but it is a personal decision for me not to reward them for their blatant deceptive advertising, especially since they don’t seem to have any real reason to do it, unless perhaps they actually do? 

Your worldview is saddening, and this post is a lot of projecting yourself onto others. 

I’ve been guilty of being a negative nancy of this forum before too. When I realized, I quietly saw myself out of the thread I jacked and let people enjoy their fun. Maybe you ought to chill and reflect. 

I was not fooled as you may have surmised by my comments, and I am not being negative.  The thread asks why or WHY NOT? does it not?  I am simply expressing my experience and why I made my decisions and have not suggested that others should or should not consider these issues, but I did.  I wasn’t aware I was projecting a “worldview” I thought I was explaining why I chose a different brand than Dewalt, last time I checked that isn’t a crime.  No world views for me, I’ve traveled the entire world (except Antarctica) so if you would like some I would be happy to offer them in another venue, but this thread is about a person’s personal decision to chose or not chose a particular brand of tools it really isn’t important AT ALL.  Therefore calm down and please stop trying the attach labels and bully me my opinion it will not change. Any reasonable objective reader can see I provided information (all completely fact based) that led me to spend my money elsewhere, and they can decide for themselves if those are concerns they care about when it comes to investing in a cordless tool platform.

Feeling guilty yet?

Well, I won’t comment on your worldview but I would say that your “why not” attempts to spread a fair amount of FUD: why would you assume 20v Max is approaching the end of its lifecycle? FlexVolt isn’t a replacement anymore than M18 High Output is a replacement for all previous M18 batteries. 20v Max isn’t getting the V18 treatment when it and its main two competitors all have well over 100 tools in the system. 

Because it is, 20V Max is going away.  They will continue to produce for many years into the future but technology has moved on 18650 batteries are going away, and Dewalt is heavily invested in the 60V Flexvolt system and it is an excellent solution.  Eventually all their tools will be completely refreshed to allow them to take advantage of the 60V flexvolt system at which point you will be unable to buy a 20V max (professional level) tool it will only be built to the new 60V Flexvolt architecture. Realistically professionals will need to refresh their own equipment so it won’t be a huge deal but it will catch a few out in the cold. BTW Dewalt didn’t play the deceptive advertising game until after they were bought out by Black & Decker, so again I get that it was a corporate plan not a Dewalt plan just to bad B&D couldn’t let Dewalt keep rocking along, they didn’t need their “help”. It’s clear to me B&D bought Dewalt to get ownership of their class leading technology.

Interesting theory; but FlexVolt is already backwards compatible and wakes up plenty of 20v Max tools. But why would I want FlexVolt packs hanging off my drill anyway? 20v Max is alive and well as M18 and Makita LXT are, and far more alive and well than any other company’s offerings beyond red and teal. 

You’re right about one thing though; 18650 cells aren’t sticking around. That’s why all of my 20v Max batteries already have 20700/21700 cells in them. 

My understanding is that FlexVolt utilizes 20700.  Have they produced anything in 21700 yet, not to my knowledge but I don’t stay up on Dewalt as much.

OldDominionDIYer wrote:

26 minutes ago, OldDominionDIYer said:

My understanding is that FlexVolt utilizes 20700.  Have they produced anything in 21700 yet, not to my knowledge but I don’t stay up on Dewalt as much.

DCB230 1P 3.0 ah packs use 21700 cells. A 1P 4.0 ah is probably on the way..ala Metabo. New 9.0 flexvolt probably does as well. 20v max (18v in Europe) isnt going anywhere. The future for impact drivers, compact drills, rotary and 3speed hammers (dcd996) is more light weight and compact designs (kudos to Milwaukee and Makita) while maintaining current power output (1000 watts). 60v makes no sense for these platforms  

OldDominionDIYer wrote:

1 hour ago, OldDominionDIYer said:

Because it is, 20V Max is going away.  They will continue to produce for many years into the future but technology has moved on 18650 batteries are going away, and Dewalt is heavily invested in the 60V Flexvolt system and it is an excellent solution.  Eventually all their tools will be completely refreshed to allow them to take advantage of the 60V flexvolt system at which point you will be unable to buy a 20V max (professional level) tool it will only be built to the new 60V Flexvolt architecture.

With two new jigsaws, an orbital sander and a router coming out this fall, how exactly is 20V max going away? 

Many tools don’t need 15 cell power. We won’t ever see a flexvolt drywall cut out or screw gun for instance. You won’t ever need a 60 volt (oops wouldn’t mean to mislead you) I mean 56v laser level. 

Youre asking folks in a power tool forum if they feel guilty one second, accusing them of dishonesty the next. 

This fool is trippin

Babysaw wrote:

10 minutes ago, Babysaw said:

 

Many tools don’t need 15 cell power. We won’t ever see a flexvolt drywall cut out or screw gun for instance. You won’t ever need a 60 volt (oops wouldn’t mean to mislead you) I mean 56v laser level. 

54v. Are you trying to deceive people?!

Also, haven’t you heard? 18650 is the past. That’s why all M12 batteries have them (and are restricted to that size thanks to stempacks), and all the impact wrenches, drills and impact driver kits announced at NPS18 come bundled with XC5.0 batteries powered by old school 18650 cells. You know, because M18 is dying. It is. 

Whoa guys easy! Do 20V Max batteries work In FlexVolt tools?  Because all tools that could benefit from Higher output battery packs will be FlexVolt and not compatible with the older 20V Max system. No it’s as I said “the beginning of the end”, NOT the end, Oh and Dewalt is using 20700 not 21700 battery cells in the FlexVolt and other new batteries.  You all need to realize Dewalt did not go all-in on flexVolt for nothing every single tool that requires high output energy will get converted to FlexVolt I guarantee it! Otherwise they will not be competitive, and its all about leading the industry which Dewalt cannot do with their 20V Max alone.  

Do M18 batteries work in V18 tools? Do M18 CP 1.5/2.0 or XC 3.0/4.0/5.0/6.0 really work in the new high output M18 tools? Every high output tool Milwaukee will make will run like crap on the 18650 batteries.

Most 20v Max tools don’t require 15 cells worth of “high output energy”. Just like only the 5ish new tools Milwaukee announced really need the High Output 12.0

Oh, and Dewalt is using 21700 in the 20v Max XR 3.0 compact batteries that I own. I can’t tell if you’re arguing in bad faith or just ignorant of the facts at this point.

The future of a FlexVolt OMT, jigsaw, drywall screwgun, impact driver, etc. will be an interesting one. Unless you’re saying those won’t be replaced because they aren’t high energy output…but you wouldn’t just move goalposts like that, would you?

I’m not “moving goal posts” you folks seem to like to make a lot of assumptions! I said and I quote “the beginning of the end for 20V Max” that doesn’t imply or indicate that Dewalt will stop producing these tools tomorrow, it means they will gradually phase in their new flexvolt system as they remodel future tools that can benefit from the higher output batteries. Geez calm down, have I touched on a sore subject? 

Oh and its 20700: https://syonyk.blogspot.com/2017/04/dewalt-20v-max-60ah-pack-teardown.html

https://toolguyd.com/dewalt-dcb230-20v-3ah-battery-pack/

Enjoy your Holiday!

So you really are just trolling. Good to know. Would you like me to open a 230 and take a picture for you? You still haven’t explained what happens with tools like drill drivers, impact wrenches, etc. in this supposed phasing out from 20v Max to FlexVolt.

I’m sorry but all factual evidence I have states Dewalt went with 20700, unless you can show me otherwise I’ll trust my sources.  I have no intention of explaining what happens to Dewalt tools I can see what’s happening!

OldDominionDIYer wrote:

8 minutes ago, OldDominionDIYer said:

I’m sorry but all factual evidence I have states Dewalt went with 20700, unless you can show me otherwise I’ll trust my sources.  I have no intention of explaining what happens to Dewalt tools I can see what’s happening!

Dude. Shut it down. Or I will. Also, welcome to the forums.

OldDominionDIYer wrote:

4 minutes ago, OldDominionDIYer said:

I’m sorry but all factual evidence I have states Dewalt went with 20700, unless you can show me otherwise I’ll trust my sources.  I have no intention of explaining what happens to Dewalt tools I can see what’s happening!

DCB230 has Samsung 30T 21700 INR21700-30T (3000mah) cells. The toolguy post was posted before the batteries were on the market. 20700 was used for the dcb206 6.0 packs. 21700 cells have a lower impedance than 20700 cells. Would make sense to use 21700 for a 1P pack. Lower impedance= more power (less loss due to impedance) and future proof for future 4000+mah (4.0ah) 1P pack.

More^×2U wrote:

1 hour ago, More^×2U said:

 

DCB230 has Samsung 30T 21700 INR21700-30T (3000mah) cells. The toolguy post was posted before the batteries were on the market. 20700 was used for the dcb206 6.0 packs. 21700 cells have a lower impedance than 20700 cells. Would make sense to use 21700 for a 1P pack. Lower impedance= more power (less loss due to impedance) and future proof for future 4000+mah (4.0ah) 1P pack.

Sorry dude, we are getting off topic. Let’s let it lie where it lies. Thanks!

So going back to the op, Dewalt is a real good manufacturer of tools, I wish I could limit myself to just one line but alas….

Too bad about the recip saws, I don’t have one. I bought a Milwaukee corded sawzall from one of our mods a while back. It’s a sawzall, there really is no comparison. My Makita 18v recip is really good. I have heard mixed reviews on the Dewalt recip but they are still the king of the mitersaw in New England. And my 20v hammer is the bees knees. A lot of guys don’t like the three speed tranny but I like it a lot. And that chuck is diamond hard. Pulse the three speed impact is still my go to impact. The new Surge I got is awesome. My Dewalt mid torque impact wrench is a dream to use. 

We think a lot alike @ChrisK, for carpenter tools yellow is damn good. Their midtorque is tempting but I’m trying to Lee my garage tools red and the Fuel mid torque is awesome. The 3 speed 996 is my favourite drill; torque for every application. I’m trying to stay away from M18 12.0 but if I do my only recip will be an M18 Fuel Hackzall lol. Mitre saws though…yellow all day. The red 7.25 looks like a beauty but I’ll wait for a brushless 20v Max version instead. 

Bremon wrote:

19 minutes ago, Bremon said:

We think a lot alike @ChrisK, for carpenter tools yellow is damn good. Their midtorque is tempting but I’m trying to Lee my garage tools red and the Fuel mid torque is awesome. The 3 speed 996 is my favourite drill; torque for every application. I’m trying to stay away from M18 12.0 but if I do my only recip will be an M18 Fuel Hackzall lol. Mitre saws though…yellow all day. The red 7.25 looks like a beauty but I’ll wait for a brushless 20v Max version instead. 

Yeah, what with the Milwaukee tools I have been purchasing I bought their new Chainsaw today. I was going to go Flexvolt because I have two flexvolt tools, the circ and the grinder, but the chain tensioning bolts cinched it. I’ve been burnt by Milwaukee a few times but what I have I really like, the 10” miter, the transfer pump, the Surge (really liking that), the m12 hoodie and inflator. I figured I’ll try this one out. I hope I don’t get burned! I was going to go Flexvolt on the miter but I figured the size and weight of the Milwaukee won out. I have my Kapex in the shop so I figured going lighter and battery only was okay plus I have two 9.0sAll told though I don’t see getting rid of my Dewalts. Even my brother who uses Milwaukee exclusively loves my yellow tools. 

I found a deal on the FlexVolt chainsaw but couldn’t pull the trigger, it just seems like sort of a dud. The Milwaukee looks really nice. Milwaukee definitely has a few turds they polished and slapped “Fuel” on and sent to market, but their impacts, the Surge, etc. definitely aren’t in that group lol. Their new table saw looks like an upgrade to the FlexVolt, it’s just unfortunate they’re two years too late to get my money for a table saw lol. 

My dad recently picked up a flexvolt chainsaw, it’s a been a great saw so far… The worries about the plastic chain tensioner are totally overblown, Ave on YouTube has everyone scared like it’s going to come apart and the whole saw is useless..

He has already cut over a cord of wood for heat in the garage over the winter on some smaller trees with his and no issues. Adjusts fine and very easily which honestly was a big selling point and it doesn’t really feel cheap in the slightest. The amount of times you will actually use the saw and effectively need to adjust the chain, it doesn’t even matter.

Would I use it as my standalone chainsaw in the woods to cut my 5 cords of winters wood for the house, Probably not… We got a 450 Rancher for the big stuff.

Its a great saw with a ton of power to do many a jobs around the house, take with you to the camp, on the ATV whatever you need to do. Its not going to replace your big pro saws but it’s great at what it’s meant for… It made a believer out of me for sure. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy one, but dad has one so I don’t need too haha

I’ll have to see what Prime Day has for Dewalt deals lol. The M18 chainsaw is too dear for me.