Archived from the Tools In Action forum (Woodworking). This thread is read-only.
Hi guys, I can’t decide what to get… at first I was set on getting the 10 inch Milwaukee fuel imported( I’m in Europe, Ireland) As I firmly believe that cordless is the way to go. But have since started to change my mind based on 2 reasons 1. Dust collection is a huge factor for me as my current older DeWalt saws dust collection is shite! Therefore I’ll be plugging the extractor in anyways. 2. I have no other m18 tools and I’m just not sure how accurate/stay accurate the saw will be when compared to the two I mention below.
I’m a cabinet maker by trade so it’s for clean accurate work is mostly what this saw will see.
The capacity is for when cutting cornice/moulding or with the max width that I can cut an 18mm gable at.
The two other options are the 120 Kapex or the 12 inch Bosch axial glide saw.
Without any stand, this is approx what each would cost me.
Kapex- 940 euro
Bosch- 780 euro
Milwaukee- 1100 euro APPROX import charges n shipping are a big factor
Bosch
Pros.
Once set up should stay accurate with minimal flexing due to its design.
Largest capacity
Great for against a wall/someone’s hallway
Cheapest option
Cons.
Heavy/bulky for carrying around
The potential for blade wobble since its 12inch(has anyone noticed this????)
Kapex
Pros.
Presume its the best dust collection
Easy mitre/bevel adjustments
Lighter easier carry around
Cons.
Not as much cut capacity.
Expensive for what it is I think?
Milwaukee
Pros
Cordless-huge advantage at times but not sure how much I’ll benefit from it.
Light easy transport
Compact
Cons
Price
Hassel of importing
Accuracy?
Any help, info, reviews, pointers, personal experience or do’s/don’ts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance Jack.
Go for the Bosch. Dust collection is terrible on the m18 saw. If you are not going to be moving it often the Bosch will work perfectly for you. All sliding miter saws will have some deflection the further you have to extend the arm. Best practice is to flip the board half way through the cut, as long as you have a miter saw fence set up. Here is a video comparing the Bosch to the Dewalt saw on dust collection.
I had planned on buying the Milwaukee as soon as it came out, but after some thought I decided against buying a cordless miter saw.
I currently have two Dewalt miter saws one is about 15 years old the other I bought used as it came with a Large stand I purchased. I tend to take care of my stuff so it lasts, but I also do not use them every day. The shop I work in supplies miter saws, nail guns etc. So most of my personal large items is for home use and side work.
There is no way a battery will last for 15 years, so what happens to the tool once the batteries are no longer made?
I want purchase a Festool track saw but It will be a corded version as I do not want an obsolete tool if they change their battery design in 10 years.
I have only run a Bosch a few times and preferred a Dewalt, but that was because the bosch had a safety on the On switch that I was not used to. The bosch certainly does not look like a portable saw.
What is the capacity difference between the Festool and Bosch? It would drive me nuts if I had to flip a board all the time to finish a cut. But I rarely cut boards in the 10 to 12 in range.
You could get the flexvolt 12in, get the benefits of cordless and when it becomes of fossil you can still plug it into mains.
That said, tech is going to advance so much for tools in the next 15 years you’d likely find anything you buy now to be essentially useless in comparision before it becomes obsolete.
I recently went through the same thing. To be honest, I never really considered a cordless saw. I didn’t need the cordless ability and would end up paying the same for less capacity. Plus I know I’d really regret it the first time I had to replace the battery.
After the debacle with the Ridgid saw I originally bought, I narrowed it down to the Dewalt 780 and the Bosch Axial Glide. I never really considered the Kapex because of the price.
I really liked the Bosch and if I were setting it up in a shop, it probably would have been my choice. The Axial Glide system is pretty sweet.
I ended up going with the Dewalt 780 and am very happy with it. It was about a degree off out of the box, but after I tuned it up, It’s a great saw. It got the nod over the Bosch because with it and the stand I saved $100, plus I have a Dewalt service center about 40 minutes away.
Thanks for getting back to me guys.
Ok yes, I believe the cordless is out of the question. My boss has the DeWalt 12inch saw which ever model was out 6 years ago don’t know the model number of my head. I don’t like it. I’m not sure how to word/explain it but there’s give in the sliding mechanism so no matter what way u square it its only square one way if that makes sense. Also, I don’t know why but I just don’t like it as a saw to use.
I would definitely own the Bosch right now if I wasn’t concerned about the size and hauling it out on site. It isn’t too often but as time goes on it will be getting more and more often.
To be honest, with the type of work I do, the Kapex should have me covered it’s just that I’m paying more for less capacity which I may want someday.
As for the flex volt, I’m just not impressed with the accurcy of the dewalt saw so not really considering it although I do get your point.
The Kapex has only come into consideration very recently. I haven’t even done a whole lot of research on it. I had a quick look at it a while back and said no way am I spending that kind of money. Plus i dont own any festool tools as im scared ill get the bug and believe they are overpriced.
Keep the info coming its much appreciated. Thanks, Jack
Honestly I wouldn’t go for the Milwaukee at that price it’s just not worth it if it was me I would go for the kapex
I love my Kapex. Best miter saw I have used hands down. Like everything Festool… price sucks.
My second choice was the Bosch, but its a unit I would want to lug its final resting place ONCE and never move it again. For me its too bulky to move around.
The Kapex also has a lever you flip that locks the depth so its like a radial arm saw. So you can cut dados or rabbets with it or just a half depth slot. Very handy.
I agree wth Rich, love my Kapex. If you were going elsewhere, I’d go with the bosch too. The dust collection on hat isn’t very good either but there are quite a few mods you can do to the chute to improve it greatly. D.C. is a big deal to me too
I have the Bosch GCM12SD and love it. But that thing is a beast glad I do not have to haul it around.
I suggest you do not get the Milwaukee saw because I heard the quality of the saw is not up to par of what is expected from Milwaukee.
rrmccabe wrote:
3 hours ago, rrmccabe said:
So he got rid of a Kapex to replace it with a Bosch? Sounds like he will push whatever a sponsor sends him. If all he is doing is straight cuts he may as well use an old radial arm saw.
I dont know his motivation but if you watch his videos he downsizes on occasion. He had a super nice powermatic bandsaw and sold it and downsized to one with almost the same capability with smaller footprint. Now the footprint difference was not enough to justify the change so I dont know the actual reason. He said he had a Makita on the floor too. I am sure all of its has been sent to him.
This is his business so you can bet there is going to be an plug here or there for monetary reasons.
That was not the best review in my opinion since he just makes straight cuts but it did show the dust collection differences and I agree the Festool clamp is nice.
Anyone that owns a Kapex pretty much has the same opinion which is probably its the best you can buy but not worth the money.
My 3HP Grizzly cabinet saw cost about the same money as my Kapex. Makes no sense.
And remember that Marc has gotten rid of almost all of his Festools, keeping only a few after a change in sponsorship and Festool going elsewhere. Currently he has changed out that Bosch for Makita but it’s still pretty cool to be able to try out so many tools!
Thanks a mill for the replies guys. Although I haven’t made my final decision I have decided that the Milwaukee is out of the question! My day job is assembling and then fitting kitchens, wardrobes and fitted units. But I like to do my own work on the side at home and hope to go out self-employed once my apprenticeship is over. I have a very small workshop at home but I’m trying to make do with what I have. Right now all my crosscuts are done with my Makita tracksaw and a homemade version of the MFT table (Basically an aluminium extrusion bolted to a table with two reference points for the track which are 90 degrees to the extrusion.) This is ok for the bigger stuff but an accurate mitre saw would be much handier for the narrower work. I don’t have no sliding table or crosscut sled for my table saw as its a job site saw and wouldn’t be accurate enough. This is where the Bosch would stand out over the kapex if you ask me. But then its huge downfall is when I have to lug it around onsite which will be getting more n more often I believe.
Rich that is a very good point about the kapex being the same value as you table saw!! It’s ridiculous!!
jackfinzo wrote:
5 minutes ago, jackfinzo said:Rich that is a very good point about the kapex being the same value as you table saw!! It’s ridiculous!!
Yea, its stupid. There is no reason a miter saw should have cost as much as this !
That’s crazy!! Has turned me right of the Kapex! Nice saw by the way, wish I had the space for something like that.
Milwaukee is a nice saw just has a couple issues, it has some deflection, fence must be removed for compound miters and the springs are a little stiff
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Hi Jim, those issues alone are enough to turn me off it. Thanks for the info tho 🙂
rrmccabe wrote:
2 hours ago, rrmccabe said:
Yea, its stupid. There is no reason a miter saw should have cost as much as this !
I would have gone another route but got mine on the Recon sale for 40%! I paid the same as the new Dewalt 60v! Had I not gotten it that way? I can dream but no. Too. I had money for a hobby shop 🙁
Yea, I struggled with it. Had buyers remorse the next day and the next day after that.
But honestly if I had it to do over again I would probably still buy the Kapex.
I did buy a Colliflower Zero Clearance Insert today. Looking forward to getting it.
jackfinzo wrote:
Hi Jim, those issues alone are enough to turn me off it. Thanks for the info tho [emoji4]
Flexvolts a great option
Jimbo
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JimboS1ice wrote:
1 hour ago, JimboS1ice said:
Flexvolts a great option
Jimbo
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:blink:
Jimbo! Gasp….cough…JIMBO!!!!! Is this really Jimbo?!?!?!?!!?!?! 😉
I like my 12″ Milwaukee been cutting bang on with plenty of power not cordless but it is stationary in my shop….
ChrisK wrote:
:blink:
Jimbo! Gasp….cough…JIMBO!!!!! Is this really Jimbo?!?!?!?!!?!?! [emoji6]
You forget I had a whole line of dewalt at one point, their miters rocks dude
Jimbo
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Hahahahaha oh yeah!
SetBuilder wrote:
7 hours ago, SetBuilder said:So he got rid of a Kapex to replace it with a Bosch? Sounds like he will push whatever a sponsor sends him. If all he is doing is straight cuts he may as well use an old radial arm saw.
he has a makita miter saw now
rrmccabe wrote:
6 hours ago, rrmccabe said:I dont know his motivation but if you watch his videos he downsizes on occasion. He had a super nice powermatic bandsaw and sold it and downsized to one with almost the same capability with smaller footprint. Now the footprint difference was not enough to justify the change so I dont know the actual reason. He said he had a Makita on the floor too. I am sure all of its has been sent to him.
This is his business so you can bet there is going to be an plug here or there for monetary reasons.
That was not the best review in my opinion since he just makes straight cuts but it did show the dust collection differences and I agree the Festool clamp is nice.
Anyone that owns a Kapex pretty much has the same opinion which is probably its the best you can buy but not worth the money.
My 3HP Grizzly cabinet saw cost about the same money as my Kapex. Makes no sense.
anything he gets for review or a plug he specifically says so. So of the stuff he gets is just to get. No company promotion involved. I dont mind that he is venturing away from festool and powermatic.
rrmccabe wrote:
8 hours ago, rrmccabe said:My 3HP Grizzly cabinet saw cost about the same money as my Kapex. Makes no sense.
Buy a Felder table saw and you Kapex will feel like a bargain 🙂
SetBuilder wrote:
6 hours ago, SetBuilder said:
Buy a Felder table saw and you Kapex will feel like a bargain 🙂
LOL, I have no place to put on of those bad boys. But would be nice !
Can always dream. Might as well dream for one with the miter side arm thing too.
If you do decide to go with the Bosch adding the gravity rise stand will make it easier to move around but that adds to the price.
Jronman wrote:
11 hours ago, Jronman said:anything he gets for review or a plug he specifically says so. So of the stuff he gets is just to get. No company promotion involved. I dont mind that he is venturing away from festool and powermatic.
He is staying with Powermatic, Festool backed out of sponsorship for whatever reason. And yeah, Marc is very clear about his sponsors. Which is great, he doesn’t really endorse to many tools. I have been a guild member for a while and he does not cloud his projects with endorsement stuff at all, just the work itself. He did some public videos for Honda recently in which he blatantly was using the Ridgeline in each of the videos but those were not part of the paying guild projects which is really a testament to his business practices. I would add too that he was really professional about Festool taking off and he decidedly kept several tools while downsizing others like the Kapex. I believe he still owns it but he is checking out other sponsors products and fielding them. He did quite a bit of work with the Bosch and now he’s introducing the Makita which I am looking forward too because it is a great saw too. I cannot wait to get his opinions on the Flexvolt stuff, I really like my circular but am interested in the miter.
ChrisK wrote:
56 minutes ago, ChrisK said:He is staying with Powermatic, Festool backed out of sponsorship for whatever reason. And yeah, Marc is very clear about his sponsors. Which is great, he doesn’t really endorse to many tools. I have been a guild member for a while and he does not cloud his projects with endorsement stuff at all, just the work itself. He did some public videos for Honda recently in which he blatantly was using the Ridgeline in each of the videos but those were not part of the paying guild projects which is really a testament to his business practices. I would add too that he was really professional about Festool taking off and he decidedly kept several tools while downsizing others like the Kapex. I believe he still owns it but he is checking out other sponsors products and fielding them. He did quite a bit of work with the Bosch and now he’s introducing the Makita which I am looking forward too because it is a great saw too. I cannot wait to get his opinions on the Flexvolt stuff, I really like my circular but am interested in the miter.
didn’t he use the flexvolt with the ridgeline projects? I thought I remember him saying he thought the flexvolt tools were ok but wouldn’t use them because its cordless and not as practical in a shop setting than a jobsite. He is fairly unbiased too.
Jronman wrote:
41 minutes ago, Jronman said:didn’t he use the flexvolt with the ridgeline projects? I thought I remember him saying he thought the flexvolt tools were ok but wouldn’t use them because its cordless and not as practical in a shop setting than a jobsite. He is fairly unbiased too.
Nah, he just got them when he moved into his new home in Colarado. He was using simple homeowner tools for those projects! He got the Flexvolt tools in just before he starting getting his D.C. and Powermatic tools in place.
ChrisK wrote:
42 minutes ago, ChrisK said:Nah, he just got them when he moved into his new home in Colarado. He was using simple homeowner tools for those projects! He got the Flexvolt tools in just before he starting getting his D.C. and Powermatic tools in place.
well in one of his friday live video he talked a bit about his thoughts on them.
Jronman wrote:
19 minutes ago, Jronman said:well in one of his friday live video he talked a bit about his thoughts on them.
No kidding? Not impressed?
I think Marc got another Makita miter saw and might have been the new one that just released.
He did. He still has the Bosch glide as well.Jronman wrote:
I think Marc got another Makita miter saw and might have been the new one that just released.
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Back to the OP….
one thing that that keeps me from getting a Kapex is that here, the cost is something like 225% of the Bosch. But the cost difference there is apparently much less. If you can swing it, that’s the way I’d go.
Once i I get all the detritus from moving out of my garage/shop, I will be looking at the Bosch, though. I fairly frequently get e-mails from a local shop that will run them for around $550 vs. $1475 for the Festool….
What also scares me about the Kapex is I often see forum threads and FB posts about their motors burning up. Which then leads to long discussions about extension cord length and gauge, was it plugged into a dust extractor or not, how many amps was the breaker rated for etc.
Other people chime in and say they have been running them for 10 years with no issues, but something seems odd that there are so many threads about motors burning up.
Why not go for the 10” Bosch save a bit of coin and weight?
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If/when my Kapex dies again I am looking hard at the new Makita. Seems like a nice saw and is getting decent feedback so far. Also saw Hitachi has a new rail forward 10″ coming out if you want to save some coin.
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overanalyze wrote:
If/when my Kapex dies again I am looking hard at the new Makita. Seems like a nice saw and is getting decent feedback so far. Also saw Hitachi has a new rail forward 10″ coming out if you want to save some coin.
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How could I forget the new makita!! Definitely a sexy Saw
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I do notice, from what Festool stuff I got, that they can get hot to the touch. Brushless may help some but mine aren’t brushless.
Hitachi is coming out with a new miter. Might be worth checking out.
If you want best of the best might as well skip a miter saw and get a sliding table saw haha. Felder, Martin, and Oliver are some well known brands that make them.